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new school vs midschool anything goes

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 1:23 AM

Just got into a heavy debate with a youngster about how a cheaper midschool frame would be a better buy than a newer more expensive frame.it snowballed outa control from there as you can imagine. Let me hear it.he had no good points really tbh.what do you guys say? Go nuts.....

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one try kid

Vital BMX member one try kid
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Posts: 1474

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Location: PHL

7/24/2014 2:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/24/2014 2:23 AM

Today's technology allows the frame/parts manufacturers to create frames/parts that are stronger and lighter than older frames/parts. Just because it weighs 40 lbs it's not guaranteed to be stronger than bikes that weigh 25-30 lbs.

I'd get a cheap midschool bike for lulz or general cruising around but i'd keep a newer and more modern bike if i wanted to ride.
No point in breaking a classic midschool bike trying to hop up curbs.

I'd keep a midschool bike for looking swag.

In real life, i'm a short Perverted Azn Man.
But in the internet, i'm a killing machine with 10 years MMA training experience.

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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7/24/2014 2:36 AM

Ok this is good! But im not talking about heavy bikes. Im talking about bikes like the older s&m dirtbike, 2Hip playboy, s&m sabbath.yea their heavier.but im talking resilience. Theres no pictures anywhere with those frames broken.much respect brother.appreciate the input.keep it coming.

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one try kid

Vital BMX member one try kid
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7/24/2014 2:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/24/2014 3:13 AM

RxKing wrote:

Ok this is good! But im not talking about heavy bikes. Im talking about bikes like the older s&m dirtbike, 2Hip playboy, s&m sabbath.yea their heavier.but im talking resilience. Theres no pictures anywhere with those frames broken.much respect brother.appreciate the input.keep it coming.

Some frames you mention use older parts like cupped headsets which crack overtime, american BB that uses 1 piece cranks that are weaker than 3 piece, etc...

And we have to take account the geo of the older frames.

Modern riding "requires" modern geo like, steeper head angles, shorter CS and others.

I'm not saying it's not do-able on older frames, it's just "easier" on more modern frames.

Modern frames can be just as resilient as older frames due to technology and better ways to strengthen metal.

In real life, i'm a short Perverted Azn Man.
But in the internet, i'm a killing machine with 10 years MMA training experience.

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(͡O╭͜ʖ╮͡O)

RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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7/24/2014 3:18 AM

Yes good point. The frames I mentioned were made to be abused and not break. Not all american bb require opc either(see pic below).the cups work as cushion if anything.and id much rather break a cup than my headtube falling off the frame.and as for geo....yea it's easier to man handle.but what is "modern riding" anyway?isnt all riding pedal n go? Bmx has been around forever.just cz certain tricks are being published for the first time today doesnt make it modern.guys have been doing every trick in the book for as long as bmx has been around.(look up ron wilkerson fir example)id give more kudos(kudos lol)to the guy doing 360s on a midschool than a guy on aa modern bike.its that much cooler to me for someone to be able to shred anything with wheels.

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 3:21 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/24/2014 3:23 AM


Heres american bb example
And euro bb 22mm spindle size example on a midschool(crappy photo but it's thr)



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one try kid

Vital BMX member one try kid
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7/24/2014 3:38 AM

Hmmm... Euro BB = sucks. imo... tiny as fuck bearings.

American BB's are narrower than Mid-BB's (correct me if i'm wrong). A wider BB would be in theory stronger. As Gfrench once said, "Hold a stick with both hands as close as possible, the stick will be easier to twist, hold them with with more distance, it's less difficult to twist" not the exact quote but you get the point. lol

Modern frames have smaller heat treated dropouts, this means lesser chance of snagging them on grinds or bending them. Better clearance for bigger tires as well..

Nice frames? both yours?

In real life, i'm a short Perverted Azn Man.
But in the internet, i'm a killing machine with 10 years MMA training experience.

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(͡O╭͜ʖ╮͡O)

JoeDavidson

Vital BMX member JoeDavidson
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7/24/2014 3:42 AM

Frames have developed over time to be just as strong, much lighter, compatible with things such as wider tyres, integrated headsets and they have also ironed out all of the issues that were caused by the crappy dropouts bending and hanging up on rails and ruining bottom brackets constantly. Why would people buy something that is going to make everything harder to do due to geometry that isn't suited to modern riding (and yes riding has progressed hugely in the last 15 years). Also what was the last time you saw someone snap a Bonedeth

jamiespadina

Vital BMX member jamiespadina
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Posts: 1537

Joined: 3/6/2013

Location: Maryborough, AUS

7/24/2014 3:43 AM

I love the mid school frames and i can see where the kid is coming from
back then frames were built to take a beating, even the ones that weren't to heavy either. I loved alot about them, from the.feel of the frame to the look.

and also there is alot of frames today centered around feel rather than strength then there was 10 years ago.

so its 50/50 in.my mind my bucks is on the cheaper mid school frame. But it all depends on what one. If you could get a nice old s&m trailblazer from with some odyssey classic forks g-sport vandel front wheel and a bonedeth porn hub.
redline flight cranks- odyssey spider web sprocket in 45 you would be in heaven.

The first breath is the beginning of death

jamiespadina

Vital BMX member jamiespadina
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Posts: 1537

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Location: Maryborough, AUS

7/24/2014 3:49 AM

one try kid wrote:

Hmmm... Euro BB = sucks. imo... tiny as fuck bearings.

American BB's are narrower than Mid-BB's (correct me if i'm wrong). A wider BB would be in theory stronger. As Gfrench once said, "Hold a stick with both hands as close as possible, the stick will be easier to twist, hold them with with more distance, it's less difficult to twist" not the exact quote but you get the point. lol

Modern frames have smaller heat treated dropouts, this means lesser chance of snagging them on grinds or bending them. Better clearance for bigger tires as well..

Nice frames? both yours?

External BB's were the best. and yes the American bb's were narrower than mids

also back in the day we used to mod our frames, file down dropouts, add grinder plates and stiffner bars

The first breath is the beginning of death

one try kid

Vital BMX member one try kid
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Location: PHL

7/24/2014 3:49 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

Frames have developed over time to be just as strong, much lighter, compatible with things such as wider tyres, integrated headsets and they have also ironed out all of the issues that were caused by the crappy dropouts bending and hanging up on rails and ruining bottom brackets constantly. Why would people buy something that is going to make everything harder to do due to geometry that isn't suited to modern riding (and yes riding has progressed hugely in the last 15 years). Also what was the last time you saw someone snap a Bonedeth

I think the shittiest part of modern frame era is when they decided to cater to the weight wienies. lol

In real life, i'm a short Perverted Azn Man.
But in the internet, i'm a killing machine with 10 years MMA training experience.

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.
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(͡O╭͜ʖ╮͡O)

JoeDavidson

Vital BMX member JoeDavidson
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7/24/2014 3:56 AM

one try kid wrote:

I think the shittiest part of modern frame era is when they decided to cater to the weight wienies. lol

they did it for like 2 years when everyone was obsessed with getting bikes down to be as light as possible, its allowed for them to find the correct balance to achieve really strong and fairly light frames that we have now when combined with the new manufacturing techniques. Like all things the knowledge obtained from it has allowed for more progression so if anything it was good that they gave it a go. Frames nowadays though are all really strong as that trend has disappeared and everyon now just wants reliable stuff, there is just no reason to ride midschool stuff

RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:01 AM

one try kid wrote:

Hmmm... Euro BB = sucks. imo... tiny as fuck bearings.

American BB's are narrower than Mid-BB's (correct me if i'm wrong). A wider BB would be in theory stronger. As Gfrench once said, "Hold a stick with both hands as close as possible, the stick will be easier to twist, hold them with with more distance, it's less difficult to twist" not the exact quote but you get the point. lol

Modern frames have smaller heat treated dropouts, this means lesser chance of snagging them on grinds or bending them. Better clearance for bigger tires as well..

Nice frames? both yours?

Yes they are mine.thank you. Heat treated stuff isnt much stronger.but it is stronger none the less.and yea less snagging! Right on man I can dig it.but these are just components your talking about.bearings can be cheap n easy to replace.not a frame though.and anything you can do on heat treated mini drop outs, you can do on bulky drop outs( more snagging though).same with tire size.they are improvements but u can still shred with little tires and bulky drops outs.seems were heading towards the pros n cons segment of this thread now.lol.good points man.I hope people are reading this.this is deep stuff

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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Posts: 369

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Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:04 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

Frames have developed over time to be just as strong, much lighter, compatible with things such as wider tyres, integrated headsets and they have also ironed out all of the issues that were caused by the crappy dropouts bending and hanging up on rails and ruining bottom brackets constantly. Why would people buy something that is going to make everything harder to do due to geometry that isn't suited to modern riding (and yes riding has progressed hugely in the last 15 years). Also what was the last time you saw someone snap a Bonedeth

I hear bone death is the best thing ever! And I think someone would buy a old frame just on price alone.they're cheap and everyone is throwing those bikes away.they're still good.

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one try kid

Vital BMX member one try kid
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Posts: 1474

Joined: 7/24/2011

Location: PHL

7/24/2014 4:05 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

they did it for like 2 years when everyone was obsessed with getting bikes down to be as light as possible, its allowed for them to find the correct balance to achieve really strong and fairly light frames that we have now when combined with the new manufacturing techniques. Like all things the knowledge obtained from it has allowed for more progression so if anything it was good that they gave it a go. Frames nowadays though are all really strong as that trend has disappeared and everyon now just wants reliable stuff, there is just no reason to ride midschool stuff

I'd ride midshool stuff for style points.

Even more style points if it's an oldschool build.

In real life, i'm a short Perverted Azn Man.
But in the internet, i'm a killing machine with 10 years MMA training experience.

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.
(͡O╭͜ʖ╮͡O)

RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
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7/24/2014 4:13 AM

jamiespadina wrote:

I love the mid school frames and i can see where the kid is coming from
back then frames were built to take a beating, even the ones that weren't to heavy either. I loved alot about them, from the.feel of the frame to the look.

and also there is alot of frames today centered around feel rather than strength then there was 10 years ago.

so its 50/50 in.my mind my bucks is on the cheaper mid school frame. But it all depends on what one. If you could get a nice old s&m trailblazer from with some odyssey classic forks g-sport vandel front wheel and a bonedeth porn hub.
redline flight cranks- odyssey spider web sprocket in 45 you would be in heaven.

Yes! It is def 50/50! I love technology and metal fab.I also love history.and most of all.these bikes were from my era.I just feel like the young guns almost totally disregard the old stuff.particularly the frames. Maybe cz they don't know about them?cz theyr not from that era? But I notice here on vital all riders no matter what age really do appreciate those midschool bikes.but the rich kids around my area could use a good schooling. Everything is purely based on tv n magazines.

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JoeDavidson

Vital BMX member JoeDavidson
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Posts: 347

Joined: 3/31/2012

Location: GBR

7/24/2014 4:16 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

Frames have developed over time to be just as strong, much lighter, compatible with things such as wider tyres, integrated headsets and they have also ironed out all of the issues that were caused by the crappy dropouts bending and hanging up on rails and ruining bottom brackets constantly. Why would people buy something that is going to make everything harder to do due to geometry that isn't suited to modern riding (and yes riding has progressed hugely in the last 15 years). Also what was the last time you saw someone snap a Bonedeth

RxKing wrote:

I hear bone death is the best thing ever! And I think someone would buy a old frame just on price alone.they're cheap and everyone is throwing those bikes away.they're still good.

If I was going for the cheapest possible ridable build id buy one or for a midschool project but I wouldn't buy one over a modern frame

RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
106247 RxKing http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/106247/avatar/c50_instaquote_13_07_2014_01_26_27_1408421900.jpg?1408421345 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/all 06/14/13 9 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/setup 35 334 11 2

Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:21 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

Frames have developed over time to be just as strong, much lighter, compatible with things such as wider tyres, integrated headsets and they have also ironed out all of the issues that were caused by the crappy dropouts bending and hanging up on rails and ruining bottom brackets constantly. Why would people buy something that is going to make everything harder to do due to geometry that isn't suited to modern riding (and yes riding has progressed hugely in the last 15 years). Also what was the last time you saw someone snap a Bonedeth

one try kid wrote:

I think the shittiest part of modern frame era is when they decided to cater to the weight wienies. lol

JoeDavidson wrote:

they did it for like 2 years when everyone was obsessed with getting bikes down to be as light as possible, its allowed for them to find the correct balance to achieve really strong and fairly light frames that we have now when combined with the new manufacturing techniques. Like all things the knowledge obtained from it has allowed for more progression so if anything it was good that they gave it a go. Frames nowadays though are all really strong as that trend has disappeared and everyon now just wants reliable stuff, there is just no reason to ride midschool stuff

I believe in the technology. Im not as up to date with it as I'd like to be.I've only recently git back into bmx.but yes there's so muchgoodstuff out there.but it's $$$$$$$$. The reason to ride something old is the price range fir one.and I'm soo hardheaded that I can't let myself buy something that expensive when I dont feel confident on it.I feel like I'll brake these newer frames.not cz I'm good at riding.but cz I put allot of pressure on these little bikes since I'm fat. I gotta see a fat guy shredding a new school in order to be fully convinced.lol. great input guys this is good for bmx

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
106247 RxKing http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/106247/avatar/c50_instaquote_13_07_2014_01_26_27_1408421900.jpg?1408421345 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/all 06/14/13 9 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/setup 35 334 11 2

Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:28 AM

one try kid wrote:

Hmmm... Euro BB = sucks. imo... tiny as fuck bearings.

American BB's are narrower than Mid-BB's (correct me if i'm wrong). A wider BB would be in theory stronger. As Gfrench once said, "Hold a stick with both hands as close as possible, the stick will be easier to twist, hold them with with more distance, it's less difficult to twist" not the exact quote but you get the point. lol

Modern frames have smaller heat treated dropouts, this means lesser chance of snagging them on grinds or bending them. Better clearance for bigger tires as well..

Nice frames? both yours?

jamiespadina wrote:

External BB's were the best. and yes the American bb's were narrower than mids

also back in the day we used to mod our frames, file down dropouts, add grinder plates and stiffner bars

Damn the things you had to do.hence the reason for bmx evolution.

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
106247 RxKing http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/106247/avatar/c50_instaquote_13_07_2014_01_26_27_1408421900.jpg?1408421345 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/all 06/14/13 9 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/setup 35 334 11 2

Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/24/2014 4:46 AM

I dont mean to offend anyone.these are memes I posted to that kid I was discussing this topic to on fb.he called me a names cz he was butthurt about the whole thing.if u guys have funny comebacks I wana see!.







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JoeDavidson

Vital BMX member JoeDavidson
92249 JoeDavidson http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/92249/avatar/c50_lama_1399237503.jpg?1399236889 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/JoeDavidson,92249/all 03/31/12 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/JoeDavidson,92249/setup 17 330 4 3 1

Posts: 347

Joined: 3/31/2012

Location: GBR

7/24/2014 4:45 AM

one try kid wrote:

I'd ride midshool stuff for style points.

Even more style points if it's an oldschool build.

oldschool stuff is cool af but to me at least midschool always just looks a bit ropey, never really liked that look (possibly because all of the really cheap bikes when I started looked like that still)

RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
106247 RxKing http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/106247/avatar/c50_instaquote_13_07_2014_01_26_27_1408421900.jpg?1408421345 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/all 06/14/13 9 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/setup 35 334 11 2

Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:50 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

they did it for like 2 years when everyone was obsessed with getting bikes down to be as light as possible, its allowed for them to find the correct balance to achieve really strong and fairly light frames that we have now when combined with the new manufacturing techniques. Like all things the knowledge obtained from it has allowed for more progression so if anything it was good that they gave it a go. Frames nowadays though are all really strong as that trend has disappeared and everyon now just wants reliable stuff, there is just no reason to ride midschool stuff

one try kid wrote:

I'd ride midshool stuff for style points.

Even more style points if it's an oldschool build.

JoeDavidson wrote:

oldschool stuff is cool af but to me at least midschool always just looks a bit ropey, never really liked that look (possibly because all of the really cheap bikes when I started looked like that still)

Yea dude I hear ya.even the super old schools looked crappy to me but u know they were the shit for back in the day.

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jamiespadina

Vital BMX member jamiespadina
103681 jamiespadina http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/103681/avatar/c50_air_1413434584.jpg?1413433917 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/jamiespadina,103681/all 03/06/13 1 2 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/jamiespadina,103681/setup 95 1442 7 11

Posts: 1537

Joined: 3/6/2013

Location: Maryborough, AUS

7/24/2014 4:51 AM

one try kid wrote:

Hmmm... Euro BB = sucks. imo... tiny as fuck bearings.

American BB's are narrower than Mid-BB's (correct me if i'm wrong). A wider BB would be in theory stronger. As Gfrench once said, "Hold a stick with both hands as close as possible, the stick will be easier to twist, hold them with with more distance, it's less difficult to twist" not the exact quote but you get the point. lol

Modern frames have smaller heat treated dropouts, this means lesser chance of snagging them on grinds or bending them. Better clearance for bigger tires as well..

Nice frames? both yours?

jamiespadina wrote:

External BB's were the best. and yes the American bb's were narrower than mids

also back in the day we used to mod our frames, file down dropouts, add grinder plates and stiffner bars

RxKing wrote:

Damn the things you had to do.hence the reason for bmx evolution.

All of that was optional though and you didn't really need hub guards either back in the day. Those drop outs were amazing for it. And we would put the slider plates on the dropout and chain stay so it would slide alot nicer.
have a look at the old g-sport page and nook at g's bike that he had with the stainless grinder strips on it. Now they were the shit

The first breath is the beginning of death

jamiespadina

Vital BMX member jamiespadina
103681 jamiespadina http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/103681/avatar/c50_air_1413434584.jpg?1413433917 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/jamiespadina,103681/all 03/06/13 1 2 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/jamiespadina,103681/setup 95 1442 7 11

Posts: 1537

Joined: 3/6/2013

Location: Maryborough, AUS

7/24/2014 4:52 AM

Loving all the feedback to this topic. Really nice to see how everyone feels about this

The first breath is the beginning of death

RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
106247 RxKing http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/106247/avatar/c50_instaquote_13_07_2014_01_26_27_1408421900.jpg?1408421345 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/all 06/14/13 9 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/setup 35 334 11 2

Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 4:58 AM

jamiespadina wrote:

External BB's were the best. and yes the American bb's were narrower than mids

also back in the day we used to mod our frames, file down dropouts, add grinder plates and stiffner bars

RxKing wrote:

Damn the things you had to do.hence the reason for bmx evolution.

jamiespadina wrote:

All of that was optional though and you didn't really need hub guards either back in the day. Those drop outs were amazing for it. And we would put the slider plates on the dropout and chain stay so it would slide alot nicer.
have a look at the old g-sport page and nook at g's bike that he had with the stainless grinder strips on it. Now they were the shit

It's amazing to me. I dig on that stuff alot. Idk if its the history buff in me or I like the ingenuity of it all.it's just really good stuff almost like a real man rugged type feeling.idk if u guys know about superstreet bikes(crotchrockets).but an og told me that I was spoiled having fuel injected motorcycle to do wheelies on.he said back in his day they had work and actually balance their carborated heavy ass motorcycles in order to wheelie.and that we have it easy these days cz all u guys do nowadays is hit the throttle and the wheelie rides itself with no effort.

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RxKing

Vital BMX member RxKing
106247 RxKing http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/106247/avatar/c50_instaquote_13_07_2014_01_26_27_1408421900.jpg?1408421345 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/all 06/14/13 9 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/RxKing,106247/setup 35 334 11 2

Posts: 369

Joined: 6/14/2013

Location: Hayward, CA USA

7/24/2014 5:03 AM

jamiespadina wrote:

Loving all the feedback to this topic. Really nice to see how everyone feels about this

Wait till tomorow.west coast is gonna have alot to say also.its 5am here in California.if I wasnt a family man id be riding sf right now.im an insomianc.lol

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adamnmexican

Vital BMX member adamnmexican
105254 adamnmexican http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/105254/avatar/c50_mexican_zoidberg_avatar_picture_12392_1367775905.jpg?1367775581 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/adamnmexican,105254/all 05/05/13 3 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/adamnmexican,105254/setup 32 1362 3 4

Posts: 1394

Joined: 5/5/2013

Location: Katy, TX USA

7/24/2014 5:25 AM

i miss riding my wtp primate frame

fack off

urebmx

Vital BMX member urebmx
112326 urebmx http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/112326/avatar/c50_DSC00468_1407247418.jpg?1407246711 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/urebmx,112326/all 07/20/14 3 99

Posts: 102

Joined: 7/20/2014

Location: Asheboro, NC USA

7/24/2014 5:38 AM

thats all i ever rode was mid school stuff. much stronger than todays stuff but so heavy you cant get off the ground. if i posted my bike on here id get laughed at but i dont care. i was ridin in 1995 and still am today. ive seen lots and lots of changes,fads,trends come and go. if someone tells me they cant ride a shitty mid school bike i tell them its the rider not the bike.

i ride to stay young

Mychaylo

Vital BMX member Mychaylo
108502 Mychaylo http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/108502/avatar/c50_DSC00130_1406740018.jpg?1406739408 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/Mychaylo,108502/all 10/21/13 6 1064 2 2

Posts: 1070

Joined: 10/21/2013

Location: GBR

7/24/2014 8:04 AM

Mid school was just so much cooler and unique, you could tell what a frame was at 50 paces. Revision b's shamans, sta500, barcode etc. The progression of street, everything not being based on barspins, seats being usable, etc.

I have my rose tinted glasses on for the most part but mid school frame with a modern short back end is a beautiful thing.

urebmx

Vital BMX member urebmx
112326 urebmx http://p.vitalbmx.com/photos/users/112326/avatar/c50_DSC00468_1407247418.jpg?1407246711 http://www.vitalbmx.com/community/urebmx,112326/all 07/20/14 3 99

Posts: 102

Joined: 7/20/2014

Location: Asheboro, NC USA

7/24/2014 8:08 AM

Mychaylo wrote:

Mid school was just so much cooler and unique, you could tell what a frame was at 50 paces. Revision b's shamans, sta500, barcode etc. The progression of street, everything not being based on barspins, seats being usable, etc.

I have my rose tinted glasses on for the most part but mid school frame with a modern short back end is a beautiful thing.

i agree. everything looks the same now.

i ride to stay young