Can Anyone help me id these frames (supposed S&M)

Are you going to post pictures or just leave a super vague description?

The other one is almost identical except it has a 21.5" top tube instead of a 21" and the rear frame tubes were left open instead of 45'd and welded.

Looks like an old Solid bikes frame by the gusset, headtube, and cut out in dropouts

In my experience, prototype frames generally don't have serial numbers or the like. I have a prototype Federal Dwatts frame (that davey watson rode himself) and there's no serial numbers, but it has everything else that the Dwatts frame has.

The gusset and seatstay bridge don't look like S&M to me...

The welds look awful.

Yeah I was thinking it was someone trying to copy s&ms geometry cause size and angle wise of all the bars match the frames dude said there supposed to be. regaurdless it's still a very sturdy frame and it's super light total weight of this bike is under 20 pounds I'm only 5'9" 155 and I can easily hold it out straight in front of me one handed. So I'm happy with it regardless I just don't wanna run around calling it something it's not.

Yeah I was thinking it was someone trying to copy s&ms geometry cause size and angle wise of all the bars match the frames dude said there supposed to be. regaurdless it's still a very sturdy frame and it's super light total weight of this bike is under 20 pounds I'm only 5'9" 155 and I can easily hold it out straight in front of me one handed. So I'm happy with it regardless I just don't wanna run around calling it something it's not. And I think a lot of the way the welds look is from me sanding on the frame cause I started to paint it and changed my mind they look as cleaN as the welds on the Odyssey forks I have on it.

Paint it and ride it. When someone asks say I don't know. I'm sure you'll identify it along the way and if not then as long as it holds up and you're riding.

Pretty damn sure that's a Solid Bikes custom frame.

Doesn't look like s&m to me. Did they ever use a head tube like that? If it was a solid costom, that would be even cooler though. S&m has been known for some shotty welds from time to time though.