21 w/ 13cs or 20.75 w/ 13.5cs

Yes the difference will be placement, the frame will have a similar wheelbase. I recommend keeping the BTM as it is a more fun frame. The Bermuda is good, but i am pretty sure the BB height is different. Going from the 11.5 (Low) height and the 11.8 on the Bermuda can make a difference. Some people dont notice so much but BB height really affects my Manuals.

If you would rather have Investment Cast dropouts and chain tensioners, the Bermuda is good.

So to sum things up. The BTM has better Geo, but the Bermuda has nicer features. So if you can make that decision it is up to you.

They will feel slightly different.

MaximusBikes wrote:

Yes the difference will be placement, the frame will have a similar wheelbase. I recommend keeping the BTM as it is a more fun ...more

MaximusBikes wrote:

Yes the difference will be placement, the frame will have a similar wheelbase. I recommend keeping the BTM as it is a more fun frame. The Bermuda is good, but i am pretty sure the BB height is different. Going from the 11.5 (Low) height and the 11.8 on the Bermuda can make a difference. Some people dont notice so much but BB height really affects my Manuals.

If you would rather have Investment Cast dropouts and chain tensioners, the Bermuda is good.

So to sum things up. The BTM has better Geo, but the Bermuda has nicer features. So if you can make that decision it is up to you.

They will feel slightly different.

...more

Fuck, I love the feel of my BTM but I love the gold and I love the bermuda as a frame with all the features and the wishbone etc.. not sure what to do really.

Imo the Bermuda is the stronger frame. Factory made, wishbone, etc. If you run 13.4ish then file the Bermuda's dropouts slightly and carefully and run slammed so that your wheel will be in the same spot as it would on your BTM.

Do you feel as if you have 1/4" to spare? Its not a huge difference, so if you already feel super roomy on a 21" maybe it will be better for you and still have the room you need.

Also, look into bb heights. I switched from 11.5 to 11.8 and it seemed SUUUUPER twitchy at first, but it has opened up alot of clearance for me on grinds and makes me feel like I hop higher (I dont though) which has kinda boosted my confidence for alot of things. After a few days I got used to it and all was well. Not sure if it negatively or positively effects manuals.



@MaximusBikes - how can you say the BTM has better geo? How do you know what the OP prefers?

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Imo the Bermuda is the stronger frame. Factory made, wishbone, etc. If you run 13.4ish then file the Bermuda's dropouts ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Imo the Bermuda is the stronger frame. Factory made, wishbone, etc. If you run 13.4ish then file the Bermuda's dropouts slightly and carefully and run slammed so that your wheel will be in the same spot as it would on your BTM.

Do you feel as if you have 1/4" to spare? Its not a huge difference, so if you already feel super roomy on a 21" maybe it will be better for you and still have the room you need.

Also, look into bb heights. I switched from 11.5 to 11.8 and it seemed SUUUUPER twitchy at first, but it has opened up alot of clearance for me on grinds and makes me feel like I hop higher (I dont though) which has kinda boosted my confidence for alot of things. After a few days I got used to it and all was well. Not sure if it negatively or positively effects manuals.



@MaximusBikes - how can you say the BTM has better geo? How do you know what the OP prefers?

...more

Idk, my friend has one, and my newest trick as of today is a 5tap to 5cab so if I can land it in 3 trys on my friends bermuda ima trade lmfao...

I went from 20.5 to 21 and honestly didn't notice a difference, I really only feel that chainstay affects me which is why I am worried, but like I said I have my wheel hanging off the back of the chainstay on my btm so I think if I slam my wheel on a bermuda (i run tiny khe mac tires) I could probably get the same feel, but idk, I am just worried I won't like the gold or I won't like something, but I fucking love the bermuda as a frame.

EffWoodPushers wrote:

Idk, my friend has one, and my newest trick as of today is a 5tap to 5cab so if I can land it in 3 trys on my friends bermuda ...more

EffWoodPushers wrote:

Idk, my friend has one, and my newest trick as of today is a 5tap to 5cab so if I can land it in 3 trys on my friends bermuda ima trade lmfao...

I went from 20.5 to 21 and honestly didn't notice a difference, I really only feel that chainstay affects me which is why I am worried, but like I said I have my wheel hanging off the back of the chainstay on my btm so I think if I slam my wheel on a bermuda (i run tiny khe mac tires) I could probably get the same feel, but idk, I am just worried I won't like the gold or I won't like something, but I fucking love the bermuda as a frame.

...more

So youre going to try a trick on a bike with probably a whole different set up/feel than yours to decide? Seems hardly logical...

If the 1/4" toptube doesn't bother you then I would definitely go for it. Like I said, file the dropout 1/10" and run the same wheel position as your BTM. Then the only difference is bb height (I believe), which I doubt will bother you too much.

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

So youre going to try a trick on a bike with probably a whole different set up/feel than yours to decide? Seems hardly ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

So youre going to try a trick on a bike with probably a whole different set up/feel than yours to decide? Seems hardly logical...

If the 1/4" toptube doesn't bother you then I would definitely go for it. Like I said, file the dropout 1/10" and run the same wheel position as your BTM. Then the only difference is bb height (I believe), which I doubt will bother you too much.

...more

Good point really, Ill try it anyways, if I land it first try then I know for sure. How would I file it really? Not sure if I would even wont too really.

Apparently he bent the chain tensioners.. can you get replacement ones?

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Imo the Bermuda is the stronger frame. Factory made, wishbone, etc. If you run 13.4ish then file the Bermuda's dropouts ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Imo the Bermuda is the stronger frame. Factory made, wishbone, etc. If you run 13.4ish then file the Bermuda's dropouts slightly and carefully and run slammed so that your wheel will be in the same spot as it would on your BTM.

Do you feel as if you have 1/4" to spare? Its not a huge difference, so if you already feel super roomy on a 21" maybe it will be better for you and still have the room you need.

Also, look into bb heights. I switched from 11.5 to 11.8 and it seemed SUUUUPER twitchy at first, but it has opened up alot of clearance for me on grinds and makes me feel like I hop higher (I dont though) which has kinda boosted my confidence for alot of things. After a few days I got used to it and all was well. Not sure if it negatively or positively effects manuals.



@MaximusBikes - how can you say the BTM has better geo? How do you know what the OP prefers?

...more

What do you mean by "factory made?" They're both made in the exact same way. I know, you are under the impression that Taiwanese frames are welded by robots, but the fact of the matter is they aren't. Even Sunday frames are welded by hands, maybe 13 year old Japanese girl hands, but still hands. Yeah, I guess you can argue that Asians technically are robots, but that too is bullshit.

To OP: You won't tell much of a difference between the BTM as you have it now and the Bermuda. You'll get used to it all in a session.

Stickin with the BTM, the guy was too pushy and made me feel as if something was wrong with his frame, I mean mine is beat and has a dent and his is "mint" so I mean, something must have been wrong. Else this guy really loves trans red.