Brain storm session: Axle idea

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3/10/2017 7:29 AM

I noticed when I tighten the rear wheel left side axle bolt, the axle moves in the direction the axle bolt is turning which can pull the chain tighter (LHD) and on the right side it does the opposite, so I was thinking would it be a good idea to thread the right side of the axle in the opposite direction so both sides pull the chain tighter, especially for RHD hubs.

any thoughts anyone?

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3/10/2017 8:01 AM

Good tip! Yeah I love when I get the chain tighter just by tightening one side of the axle but never really noticed which side it was that would do it. Are you saying you have a LHD hub? So you tighten the left side of your hub to get it to pull tighter?

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Dax in Miami

I ride for:
Reklamation Bikes (Colorado)
London Bikes (Texas)

3/10/2017 8:48 AM

timedrifter wrote:

I noticed when I tighten the rear wheel left side axle bolt, the axle moves in the direction the axle bolt is turning which can pull the chain tighter (LHD) and on the right side it does the opposite, so I was thinking would it be a good idea to thread the right side of the axle in the opposite direction so both sides pull the chain tighter, especially for RHD hubs.

any thoughts anyone?

Extra setup time to make it would increase the unit price. Left hand nuts in the correct size would be hard to find.

There is no need for such an axle as there is no problem with the current ones and there'd be very little benefit from such an axle.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
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"You can't educate pork"
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3/10/2017 9:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/10/2017 9:32 AM

p1p1092 wrote:

Extra setup time to make it would increase the unit price. Left hand nuts in the correct size would be hard to find.

There is no need for such an axle as there is no problem with the current ones and there'd be very little benefit from such an axle.

This.

Plus, there are chain tensioners, and even if a frame doesn't have any, it's not hard to do this by hand... It's the way we've all been doing it for a while.

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Scooter kid trying to ride a bike. Instagram: @scootereyn // YouTube: RH MEDIA

3/10/2017 9:52 AM

Extra expense for a problem that doesn't exist, for me anyway? No thanks.

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3/10/2017 3:43 PM

Metalbmxer wrote:

Good tip! Yeah I love when I get the chain tighter just by tightening one side of the axle but never really noticed which side it was that would do it. Are you saying you have a LHD hub? So you tighten the left side of your hub to get it to pull tighter?

Thanks!! yes the left nut pulls it back tighter, and as far as I know of right now doesn't matter if its LHD or RHD

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3/10/2017 3:53 PM

p1p1092 wrote:

Extra setup time to make it would increase the unit price. Left hand nuts in the correct size would be hard to find.

There is no need for such an axle as there is no problem with the current ones and there'd be very little benefit from such an axle.

I am not worried about unit price, thats a cop out, I want my life to be easier when I put the back wheel on my bike, and I am not sure what you mean left nut, perhaps I should have said axle bolt on the left side?

no offense but I think this innovation would be an improvement regardless, just because grandpa does it that way doesn't mean there isn't something to improve to make it better or easier or you could say if it ain't broke don't fix it, but in this case it is a fix it, when you tighten the axle bolt on the right side it makes the chain looser or tilts the wheel.

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3/10/2017 4:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/10/2017 5:18 PM

timedrifter wrote:

I am not worried about unit price, thats a cop out, I want my life to be easier when I put the back wheel on my bike, and I am not sure what you mean left nut, perhaps I should have said axle bolt on the left side?

no offense but I think this innovation would be an improvement regardless, just because grandpa does it that way doesn't mean there isn't something to improve to make it better or easier or you could say if it ain't broke don't fix it, but in this case it is a fix it, when you tighten the axle bolt on the right side it makes the chain looser or tilts the wheel.

Chain-tensioners are made for this specific purpose. It's quite easy to do with your own hands as well, I've never understood why people struggle with this. I meant left hand nut/bolt, as in left hand threads...

Just about everything in BMX is made to be simple and universally compatible, with the only big exception of pedal threads. In other words, if a nut/bolt goes on one side, it should be able to go on the other. The only reason for the left-hand threading on pedal axles is to stop them loosening as you ride, see this for more information if you don't understand that. The sheer number of people who strip their pedal threads is crazy, ask grumpySteve as I'm sure he deals with it on an almost daily basis. The odds of somebody putting the wrong nut/bolt on on the wrong side of such an axle and stripping the threads of said nut/bolt/axle are huge.

Have you tried sourcing nuts or bolts for such a design, they're much harder to get than the regular ones. If you did damage one, it'd be next to impossible to replace.

It's 'innovation' at the cost of replaceability, compatibility and practicality.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

3/10/2017 7:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/10/2017 7:55 PM

I think its a neat idea for if you grind on the left like me and keep having pegs loosen on you but they solved that problem with anti-spin pins. I guess it could help if youre running pegs on closed dropouts but there aren't many of those.

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3/10/2017 7:41 PM

I neglected to mention above that, whichever direction the wheel moves(if at all) when tightening a wheel is just 'luck of the draw'. Different setups will have different reactions to you turning the nut/bolt. My cassette wheel pulls back on the right side but doesn't move at all when tightening the left side(driveside). My freecoaster doesn't move at all if I turn either bolt. If I put the cassette on my old frame, the left side pulls back and the right side does nothing. If I put the freecoaster on the old frame, the right side pulls back. Even the rotational position of the axle comes into play!

I like that you're trying to come up with new ways to do things but frankly, there is little or no argument to be made for a design like this.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

3/10/2017 8:29 PM

To add to these replies, as long as you tighten a little on each side as you continually tighten the axle nuts, and watch what you're doing, it's flawless. I always have to align the wheel just perfect for my brakes, and this technique has served me well. Very well.

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Scooter kid trying to ride a bike. Instagram: @scootereyn // YouTube: RH MEDIA

3/10/2017 8:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/10/2017 8:48 PM

readybmxer wrote:

To add to these replies, as long as you tighten a little on each side as you continually tighten the axle nuts, and watch what you're doing, it's flawless. I always have to align the wheel just perfect for my brakes, and this technique has served me well. Very well.

I always just tip the bike up so it's resting on the front wheel and bars, finger-tighten the bolts while it's slammed in the dropouts so it moves straight in the dropouts, pull back the drive-side and tighten it a little(to the point that it won't move), then pull back the other side and tighten it and then tighten both sides evenly. Quick, easy and it works perfectly every time.

With my current frame I don't need to pull the non-driveside back as the dropouts are very parallel, it just centers perfectly by itself.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

3/10/2017 10:31 PM

It's been done, and didn't catch on (can't remember who done it though)

Tightening a wheel isn't really that hard

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3/10/2017 11:06 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/10/2017 11:15 PM

grumpySteve wrote:

It's been done, and didn't catch on (can't remember who done it though)

Tightening a wheel isn't really that hard

It was the Demolition Anorexia Cassette if I remember correctly.

Edit:
This seems to confirm it was that hub. It didn't quite click that it had been done before until you said it, I remember reading about it on here I think.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

3/10/2017 11:17 PM

p1p1092 wrote:

It was the Demolition Anorexia Cassette if I remember correctly.

Edit:
This seems to confirm it was that hub. It didn't quite click that it had been done before until you said it, I remember reading about it on here I think.

Correct. Shadow also did a reverse threaded axle "upgrade" for their Rant front hub many years ago, too. The idea there though was to stop your nuts from loosening up when grinding, but when I had the Anorexia cassette it still came loose anyway.


This idea just seems more of a hassle than it's worth.

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3/10/2017 11:22 PM

sundaybmxRR wrote:

Correct. Shadow also did a reverse threaded axle "upgrade" for their Rant front hub many years ago, too. The idea there though was to stop your nuts from loosening up when grinding, but when I had the Anorexia cassette it still came loose anyway.


This idea just seems more of a hassle than it's worth.

My thoughts exactly, that's why most pegs have an 'anti-spin' pin.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

3/12/2017 4:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/12/2017 4:58 AM

To keep the chain tight when tightening up my rear wheel bolts, I flip the bike over and wedge stuff between my frame and wheel. I do it at three points. One on either side to keep my wheel centred, and one the forward end (near the bottom bracket) to push the wheel backward, to tighten the chain.

I should really knock up some door wedge style chunks of wood for this, but I tend to just reach for my tool box. I use things with rubber/plastic like handles and jam them in there, around the wheel. This way you won't scratch your paintwork. Pliers and screwdriver handles tend to do the trick as they're rubbery often contoured and get a thicker in the middle so you can push in to just the right amount as to align your wheel properly and put nice tension into your chain. No fussy engineering involved. (I hope that all made sense, if it doesn't, let me know and I'll take some photos of how I align my wheel and tension my chain).

Tighten to a sensible tightness on either side then keep swapping from side to side a few more times and get those bolts super tight. Let your inner Hulk out for the final few turns. But don't be silly with it or you'll strip the thread.

I used chain tensioners back in the 90s, but they always broke pretty quickly, and it seems these days drop outs are so short and stubby, there's not really room for them.

I find my above mentioned method has worked fine for me for a long time. I've been doing it since I was about 15 years old. Every so often you need to loosen and reposition your rear wheel, but that's BMXing, especially if you're grinding. We smash our bikes about. It's going to happen.

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3/12/2017 12:54 PM

Demolition did it years ago, was unnecessary and discontinued, nice to see people do think about their parts though.

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3/13/2017 11:59 AM

Didn't read everything, but about 10 years ago Demolition did a left hand thread left side of the axle to prevent peg spinning and axle loosening.

Recently a local dude brought it up again, and how he thinks it is stupid that isn't a standard.

I can see how it isn't from a manufacturing standpoint-more money for the left hand threading meaning more machine setup time to change the tooling OR another machine for it, then you need to make axle nuts the same as that, and hardware and thread on hub guards and so on. The initial cost would be too much, and it would take a long time to catch up to that.

Also could be factored in with the suppliers.

Back to the RHD being reverse threaded-IF your pegs caught and started to twist, they COULD loosen your axle on the right side, thus causing more issue than your solution would solve. A chain tensioner would take care of you.

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9/23/2017 4:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2017 5:00 PM

Ok, so If we are strictly talking back wheel installation heres a little trick I do.

Think about your bike if it were hanging vertically with the bars at the top.

If you are tightening the right side your wrench needs to be on the right side basically pulling down in a clockwise motion.

Now go to the left side, bike still vertical, your wrench still needs to be on the right side pulling down in a clockwise manner.

Doesnt matter which side youre on you can still choose the side you put your wrench on to tighten. As long as you use this method, your wheel will never creep back towards the seat tube and your chain will stay tight.

Now if you think about your bike in a normal horizontal position. Position yourself directly behind the rear wheel. just point your wrench down and pull back to tighten the right side and point up and pull back to tighten the left.

Does that make sense how I explained it?

Or am I missing the point of the question?

As for grinds and such i agree it would be best to reverse thread the right side, logically.

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9/27/2017 2:38 PM

Bulletpup wrote:

Ok, so If we are strictly talking back wheel installation heres a little trick I do.

Think about your bike if it were hanging vertically with the bars at the top.

If you are tightening the right side your wrench needs to be on the right side basically pulling down in a clockwise motion.

Now go to the left side, bike still vertical, your wrench still needs to be on the right side pulling down in a clockwise manner.

Doesnt matter which side youre on you can still choose the side you put your wrench on to tighten. As long as you use this method, your wheel will never creep back towards the seat tube and your chain will stay tight.

Now if you think about your bike in a normal horizontal position. Position yourself directly behind the rear wheel. just point your wrench down and pull back to tighten the right side and point up and pull back to tighten the left.

Does that make sense how I explained it?

Or am I missing the point of the question?

As for grinds and such i agree it would be best to reverse thread the right side, logically.

Thanks Man, I will try that trick for sure!!

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9/27/2017 2:42 PM

Bulletpup wrote:

Ok, so If we are strictly talking back wheel installation heres a little trick I do.

Think about your bike if it were hanging vertically with the bars at the top.

If you are tightening the right side your wrench needs to be on the right side basically pulling down in a clockwise motion.

Now go to the left side, bike still vertical, your wrench still needs to be on the right side pulling down in a clockwise manner.

Doesnt matter which side youre on you can still choose the side you put your wrench on to tighten. As long as you use this method, your wheel will never creep back towards the seat tube and your chain will stay tight.

Now if you think about your bike in a normal horizontal position. Position yourself directly behind the rear wheel. just point your wrench down and pull back to tighten the right side and point up and pull back to tighten the left.

Does that make sense how I explained it?

Or am I missing the point of the question?

As for grinds and such i agree it would be best to reverse thread the right side, logically.

timedrifter wrote:

Thanks Man, I will try that trick for sure!!

Cool! Let me know how it goes!

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9/27/2017 10:46 PM

If your wheel moves as you tighten it your washers aren't doing their job properly. If your wheel wants to sit pissed your wheel is probably out of dish, or your axle is bent

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9/28/2017 2:17 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

If your wheel moves as you tighten it your washers aren't doing their job properly. If your wheel wants to sit pissed your wheel is probably out of dish, or your axle is bent

This. If you need new axle innovations to help tighten/center a wheel, then maybe you're safer off sat inside a room with no sharp corners

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