Chainstays

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3/3/2020 8:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2020 8:57 PM

Looking at the kink Williams complete and noticed it has a 12.75 chainstay I’ve only ridden 13.25 or 13.5, going to that short what are the biggest things I would notice and what are your guys opinions about chainstays do you have a certain geometry that you prefer over another? Any info would be appreciated

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3/3/2020 8:55 PM

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3/3/2020 9:10 PM

Manuals will feel easier but also easier to loop out

Keep in mind that you’ll have to pull your wheel back some so it will be a bit longer that 12.75 because frame companies are retarded lol

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old edit

3/3/2020 9:37 PM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

Manuals will feel easier but also easier to loop out

Keep in mind that you’ll have to pull your wheel back some so it will be a bit longer that 12.75 because frame companies are retarded lol

So for me to notice when going for manuals my front wheel drops easy which I know means I’m prob to far forward would this help me eliminate that problem or make it worse? And what do you mean like it can’t be at 12.75 and work?

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3/3/2020 9:51 PM

He's saying that there's going to have to be some slight wiggle room once the chain stretches and all is said and done, it won't be exactly 12.75.. Nit picking really..

Yes in theory, your front end will be easier to keep up, and with that said, it will loop out easier too..

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3/3/2020 9:54 PM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

Manuals will feel easier but also easier to loop out

Keep in mind that you’ll have to pull your wheel back some so it will be a bit longer that 12.75 because frame companies are retarded lol

Sik Snow wrote:

So for me to notice when going for manuals my front wheel drops easy which I know means I’m prob to far forward would this help me eliminate that problem or make it worse? And what do you mean like it can’t be at 12.75 and work?

You’ll still need to correct your body movement for the manual but it will make it much easier in the long run in my opinion

The reason you can’t run it exactly at 12.75 is be theres always gonna be a little pull back space

If its anything like 13.75 only an inch difference you should be able to get it close with 25/9 or 27/9 gearing with any luck you can get it to at least 12.8 and that will still feel super responsive

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Testimony and apologies





I want everyone to know that Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of your sins, he went to hell for three days and defeated death and rose from the grave on the 3rd day.






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old edit

3/3/2020 10:04 PM

Yep.

My old 28T sprocket and Keychain was able to be 100% slammed at 13.5. After a couple months the chain stretched, so I needed to pull it back a couple mm to get the chain tight again.

On my new 30T sprocket and Bluebird chain I was about 1-2mm short of being able to slam by back end. I'm guessing once my chain stretches I'll be able to slam it again.

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3/3/2020 10:16 PM

Sik Snow wrote:

So for me to notice when going for manuals my front wheel drops easy which I know means I’m prob to far forward would this help me eliminate that problem or make it worse? And what do you mean like it can’t be at 12.75 and work?

While the shorter chainstay might assist in manuals, it ultimately comes down to the skill of the rider. Don't buy this frame if your sole reason is to improve manuals, the key is practice.

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3/3/2020 10:50 PM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

Manuals will feel easier but also easier to loop out

Keep in mind that you’ll have to pull your wheel back some so it will be a bit longer that 12.75 because frame companies are retarded lol

Sik Snow wrote:

So for me to notice when going for manuals my front wheel drops easy which I know means I’m prob to far forward would this help me eliminate that problem or make it worse? And what do you mean like it can’t be at 12.75 and work?

readybmxer wrote:

While the shorter chainstay might assist in manuals, it ultimately comes down to the skill of the rider. Don't buy this frame if your sole reason is to improve manuals, the key is practice.

This is true to some degree its all about the skill, I personally can manual just about any frame on the market because i put the time and effort into manuals almost religiously

I recommend a shorter back end frame to anyone getting into bmx, yeah it takes skill to manual but if you have a shit long back end you’ll get fatigued easily trying to learn them which takes up time unlike a shorter rear end that will most definitely down the fatigue that happens when learning that trick less fatigue =s that many more attempts at said trick meaning you’ll learn it much faster

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Testimony and apologies





I want everyone to know that Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of your sins, he went to hell for three days and defeated death and rose from the grave on the 3rd day.






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What would Jesus say: I didn't die for you to live like this!

old edit

3/3/2020 10:52 PM

Your going to first notice your tailbone , in extreme pain when you loop out

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3/3/2020 11:52 PM

Black Swamp Ghost wrote:

He's saying that there's going to have to be some slight wiggle room once the chain stretches and all is said and done, it won't be exactly 12.75.. Nit picking really..

Yes in theory, your front end will be easier to keep up, and with that said, it will loop out easier too..

I get that I’m definitely not just going in thinking it’s going to be the end all be all for manuals I actually want it more for a easier time getting pop out of my bunny hop I figure shorter chainstay a higher pull up in theory a higher hop but iti could be totally wrong for sure also @black swamp can you run a 28t tooth on that frame or since it’s so short do you have to run the standard 25?

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3/4/2020 4:22 AM

Sik Snow wrote:

I get that I’m definitely not just going in thinking it’s going to be the end all be all for manuals I actually want it more for a easier time getting pop out of my bunny hop I figure shorter chainstay a higher pull up in theory a higher hop but iti could be totally wrong for sure also @black swamp can you run a 28t tooth on that frame or since it’s so short do you have to run the standard 25?

I've only tried a 25t sprocket on mine so far...

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3/4/2020 1:35 PM

Being honest, Geo makes a difference but it's not nearly as noticeable as people make it out to believe. Flatland frames are known for having low standovers but what do you think flatland frames looked like 30 years ago? Hell, my father used to flatland on a 24 inch racing bmx.

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Yeah, kids getting shit bikes, breaking them and then quitting. LOL
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3/4/2020 2:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/4/2020 2:09 PM

HavokDJ wrote:

Being honest, Geo makes a difference but it's not nearly as noticeable as people make it out to believe. Flatland frames are known for having low standovers but what do you think flatland frames looked like 30 years ago? Hell, my father used to flatland on a 24 inch racing bmx.

Yeah... We used to "flatland" on our Redlines and PK's before flatland was even a thing.

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3/4/2020 2:11 PM

HavokDJ wrote:

Being honest, Geo makes a difference but it's not nearly as noticeable as people make it out to believe. Flatland frames are known for having low standovers but what do you think flatland frames looked like 30 years ago? Hell, my father used to flatland on a 24 inch racing bmx.

Yeah, my last frame had 14" chainstays and now I'm riding around 13.25". I definitely prefer my new frame, but I could still do all the same shit just as well on my old long ass frame, just took a little more effort.

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3/4/2020 2:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/4/2020 2:17 PM

HavokDJ wrote:

Being honest, Geo makes a difference but it's not nearly as noticeable as people make it out to believe. Flatland frames are known for having low standovers but what do you think flatland frames looked like 30 years ago? Hell, my father used to flatland on a 24 inch racing bmx.

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Yeah... We used to "flatland" on our Redlines and PK's before flatland was even a thing.

I actually forgot to mention it was a redline lol.
Edit: But yeah, the reason I love flatland is because it's about being able to freestyle and not having to rely on your city having street spots or a park (my town has neither) to freestyle.

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Gave up on BMX to hang out with 13 year old soundcloud rappers, what a life, such a cool guy!
-Sheldon on Adam22

"The only future for BMX"

Yeah, kids getting shit bikes, breaking them and then quitting. LOL
-jbales on mafiaBIKES

I’ve been a 14 year old beginner for the last ten years
-adamnmexican

3/4/2020 2:27 PM

Anyone got any info on how. 28t sprocket wether it would work on the kink Williams complete? With those short drop outs?

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3/4/2020 2:30 PM

Sik Snow wrote:

Anyone got any info on how. 28t sprocket wether it would work on the kink Williams complete? With those short drop outs?

I'd just check out insta or bike checks here and see if its worked for other people's builds.

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3/4/2020 2:31 PM

I'm gonna be honest I ride a Steadfast which is about as trailsy a bike as you can get but I really like short chainstay bikes. So long as the bars are 7s and slammed lol. I miss the shit out of my BSD ALVX and I wanna get a Street Sweeper setup.

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3/5/2020 4:18 PM

Sik Snow wrote:

I get that I’m definitely not just going in thinking it’s going to be the end all be all for manuals I actually want it more for a easier time getting pop out of my bunny hop I figure shorter chainstay a higher pull up in theory a higher hop but iti could be totally wrong for sure also @black swamp can you run a 28t tooth on that frame or since it’s so short do you have to run the standard 25?

I've been doing some engineering calcs to compare the force a rider generates when holding a balance position, based on bike geometry. Mostly out of winter boredom, but I might order a custom frame for my birthday this year. This is all based on my current frame with 19.5" TT, 13" CS, 8.25" bars, and could be given as a percent of gross riding weight (rider + bike) :

By my estimate, 1/2" at the chainstay makes holding a manual about 2% easier (if shorter, harder if longer).
It makes it about 6% easier to pull the front wheel up to enter the manual or to loop out (if shorter, harder if longer).
It also makes the balance zone about 8% smaller (if shorter), requiring more skill to hold.

Applied to the top tube 1/2" would make the manual about 5% harder to hold (if shorter, easier if longer), but does the opposite at 5% to pull up into (shorter is easier).

Applied to the bar height 1/2" would make the manual about 2% easier to hold (if shorter, harder if taller), but does the opposite at 4% to pull up into (taller is easier).

What does that actually mean when riding? Hell if I know, but at least I have something to compare before I spend my money.

(As for the bunny hop, if you pull the front up first, a longer back end should give you more leverage and higher hops)

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3/5/2020 5:41 PM

It all comes down to skill and preference. I have friends that can manual the whole skatepark but hate riding my bike because of the 12.75 CS. For me personally I feel like it just makes long sessions easier as I dont have to pull up as hard to hop onto rails and over higher things.

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3/5/2020 7:52 PM

Can someone explain to me what slammed is like in terms of your wheel or bars and before one of you mother f$&@?s says something sexual as a response yes I see you don’t do it 😂😂😂

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3/5/2020 8:16 PM

Sik Snow wrote:

Can someone explain to me what slammed is like in terms of your wheel or bars and before one of you mother f$&@?s says something sexual as a response yes I see you don’t do it 😂😂😂

For rear wheel slammed= your axle is slammed against the very front of your rear dropouts= shortest rear end your bike could possibly have..

Bars, I don't think that's a thing???

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3/6/2020 5:00 AM

Sik Snow wrote:

Can someone explain to me what slammed is like in terms of your wheel or bars and before one of you mother f$&@?s says something sexual as a response yes I see you don’t do it 😂😂😂

"Slammed" is when something is as far in as possible. Your axle would be as far forward into the dropout as possible, if it were your seat, your seat post is all the way in and you seat is basically sitting on the frame.

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3/6/2020 6:28 AM

You'll get used to it. I went from 13.5" to 12.8". Took a few sessions to re-balance everything but I love it now. But also from a 20.5" tt to a 20.8" tt and a 75 ht to a 75.5 ht. You'll be fine after a few rides.

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