Do dirt tyres affect street riding?

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1/26/2019 9:57 AM

If i put dirt tyres with stubby treading for my street bmx, will it affect the perfomance of my bmx negatively? In weight, or doing tricks etc.

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1/26/2019 10:27 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/26/2019 10:28 AM

Juan Miguel_Canlas wrote:

If i put dirt tyres with stubby treading for my street bmx, will it affect the perfomance of my bmx negatively? In weight, or doing tricks etc.

It will make for more rolling resistance which means you will have a harder time maintaining speed. In some situations its more likely to slide out due to there being less of a contact patch of rubber on the hard surface. It will wear your tread quicker than rolling on dirt would.


All this being said, you will be fine! smile

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1/26/2019 11:55 AM

Not necessarily negative, but as Bullet said, you'll likely feel a bit slower because of the knobs and have a harder time cornering quickly around smooth skatepark and cement surfaces without sliding out. At least, in my experiences with a Specialized Rhythm Lite tire, which is relatively dirt-ish.

What tires are you talking about?

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1/26/2019 2:01 PM

Get some 2.25 FAFs and you’ll be good for both.

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1/27/2019 7:50 AM

Much scarier is street/park tires on dirt.

Don't do that.

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1/27/2019 8:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 8:44 AM

Just pump those tires up to 100 psi and ride everything , it works great

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1/27/2019 9:04 AM

TheDarkEnergist wrote:

Much scarier is street/park tires on dirt.

Don't do that.

That's all I ever do cool

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1/27/2019 9:47 AM

Bulletpup wrote:

It will make for more rolling resistance which means you will have a harder time maintaining speed. In some situations its more likely to slide out due to there being less of a contact patch of rubber on the hard surface. It will wear your tread quicker than rolling on dirt would.


All this being said, you will be fine! smile

More tread = easier to slide out?

I dunno about that one.. That's like saying knurled pegs will slide better than regular smooth pegs lol

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1/27/2019 11:00 AM

Juan Miguel_Canlas wrote:

If i put dirt tyres with stubby treading for my street bmx, will it affect the perfomance of my bmx negatively? In weight, or doing tricks etc.

Bulletpup wrote:

It will make for more rolling resistance which means you will have a harder time maintaining speed. In some situations its more likely to slide out due to there being less of a contact patch of rubber on the hard surface. It will wear your tread quicker than rolling on dirt would.


All this being said, you will be fine! smile

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

More tread = easier to slide out?

I dunno about that one.. That's like saying knurled pegs will slide better than regular smooth pegs lol

Knurled tires are for digging in to softer surfaces to get traction. Have you ever tried riding a street motorcycle on dirt or a dirtbike on pavement? It feels alright till you take a hard turn. When you turn and put all the bikes weight on a few knobs, they move around and do not provide a stable feeling. More rubber contact=better traction/stability. Smoother tires have more rubber to wrap around pavement and cement and are better for carving on hard surfaces.

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1/27/2019 11:12 AM

Bulletpup wrote:

It will make for more rolling resistance which means you will have a harder time maintaining speed. In some situations its more likely to slide out due to there being less of a contact patch of rubber on the hard surface. It will wear your tread quicker than rolling on dirt would.


All this being said, you will be fine! smile

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

More tread = easier to slide out?

I dunno about that one.. That's like saying knurled pegs will slide better than regular smooth pegs lol

Bulletpup wrote:

Knurled tires are for digging in to softer surfaces to get traction. Have you ever tried riding a street motorcycle on dirt or a dirtbike on pavement? It feels alright till you take a hard turn. When you turn and put all the bikes weight on a few knobs, they move around and do not provide a stable feeling. More rubber contact=better traction/stability. Smoother tires have more rubber to wrap around pavement and cement and are better for carving on hard surfaces.

Nope, haven't rode any motorcycles. I do however have many years of first hand experience testing different BMX tires on street spots all over the country, and I can confirm that I've had knobby tires (Ex. Fly Ruben Rampera) that were an actual hassle to use for tire slide tricks, and slick tires (Ex. Fit T/A) that were so slick, I'd wash out left and right on simple tricks & tire slides felt like cutting through butter.

I understand what you're saying, but I believe the real-life applications of Motorcycles and Street BMX Riding are a little different.. at least in my personal experiences ?

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1/27/2019 12:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 12:22 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Nope, haven't rode any motorcycles. I do however have many years of first hand experience testing different BMX tires on street spots all over the country, and I can confirm that I've had knobby tires (Ex. Fly Ruben Rampera) that were an actual hassle to use for tire slide tricks, and slick tires (Ex. Fit T/A) that were so slick, I'd wash out left and right on simple tricks & tire slides felt like cutting through butter.

I understand what you're saying, but I believe the real-life applications of Motorcycles and Street BMX Riding are a little different.. at least in my personal experiences ?

No they are not different. More rubber on the road equals more traction. Other factor apply, such as rubber compounds and such. But, a slick tire will hook up on concrete better than a knobby tire....simple science. Anecdotal evidence, especially when not compared back to back is just hearsay....



How come F1 cars are running slicks as opposed to knobbies? Why are roadies pedaling on slicks, and not Primo Dirt Monsters?

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1/27/2019 12:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 12:26 PM

Bulletpup wrote:

Knurled tires are for digging in to softer surfaces to get traction. Have you ever tried riding a street motorcycle on dirt or a dirtbike on pavement? It feels alright till you take a hard turn. When you turn and put all the bikes weight on a few knobs, they move around and do not provide a stable feeling. More rubber contact=better traction/stability. Smoother tires have more rubber to wrap around pavement and cement and are better for carving on hard surfaces.

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Nope, haven't rode any motorcycles. I do however have many years of first hand experience testing different BMX tires on street spots all over the country, and I can confirm that I've had knobby tires (Ex. Fly Ruben Rampera) that were an actual hassle to use for tire slide tricks, and slick tires (Ex. Fit T/A) that were so slick, I'd wash out left and right on simple tricks & tire slides felt like cutting through butter.

I understand what you're saying, but I believe the real-life applications of Motorcycles and Street BMX Riding are a little different.. at least in my personal experiences ?

bobPA wrote:

No they are not different. More rubber on the road equals more traction. Other factor apply, such as rubber compounds and such. But, a slick tire will hook up on concrete better than a knobby tire....simple science. Anecdotal evidence, especially when not compared back to back is just hearsay....



How come F1 cars are running slicks as opposed to knobbies? Why are roadies pedaling on slicks, and not Primo Dirt Monsters?

How many motorcycles roll in reverse at a high speed and then lock the front wheel at a 90degree angle and slide on the tire? Or bunnyhop and slide the side of the tire across the top of a concrete surface (ledge, bank, etc.)?

I will admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about motorcycles, however Street BMX riding and riding Motorcycles on streets are two totally different things, and I don't think you're gonna be able to change my mind on that.

All I'm saying is; I ride lots of street, I do lots of tire slides, and I've tried many tires to find the perfect set for myself. At the end of the day, the knobby tires I rode SUCKED for tire slides on concrete. They weren't impossible to do, just significantly more challenging and slower than with a slick tire.?‍♂️

Edit: Again, F1 cars & road bikes & all that don't do tire slide tricks, at least not in the way BMX bikes generally do?

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1/27/2019 12:35 PM

I run K-rads on my 24. They're pretty knobby but have lots of knurling. They work on everything I've tried them on which is pretty much every surface you'd encounter besides wood. I imagine they'd be fine there too. Probably depends on which specific tire you're running.

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1/27/2019 12:36 PM

Just saying that the physics between a tire gripping the ground to accelerate an object & a tire being literally grinded across concrete are apples and oranges.

Like I said, imagine grinding with a knobby peg instead of a smooth one. You're going to slow down a lot quicker & aren't going to make it as far.
Same applies for tires as they're being scraped, grinded, or whatever you want to call it during tire slides.

AT LEAST in my experience with tire experimentation.

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1/27/2019 12:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 12:49 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Just saying that the physics between a tire gripping the ground to accelerate an object & a tire being literally grinded across concrete are apples and oranges.

Like I said, imagine grinding with a knobby peg instead of a smooth one. You're going to slow down a lot quicker & aren't going to make it as far.
Same applies for tires as they're being scraped, grinded, or whatever you want to call it during tire slides.

AT LEAST in my experience with tire experimentation.

I am not going to try and change your mind. But you are denying simple physics. I know it is hard to admit being wrong, but you are incorrect on this one.

It does not matter if the tire is being drug at a 32 degree angle and your dick is out or any other goofy situation you make up. A slick tire will always have a greater contact patch, ergo more rubber on the surface, ergo more grip (taking into account the rubber compounds, tire pressures, etc. are the same)

Your knurled peg argument is way off base. A knurled peg hangs up on concrete because it digs into the concrete, or a steel rail digs into the knurled aluminum peg. A tire does not dig in, it slides. And a slick tire will not slide as easy as a knobby tire.

You need to take a general physics class, because you will lose this argument every time. Read about the coefficient of friction.

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1/27/2019 1:00 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Just saying that the physics between a tire gripping the ground to accelerate an object & a tire being literally grinded across concrete are apples and oranges.

Like I said, imagine grinding with a knobby peg instead of a smooth one. You're going to slow down a lot quicker & aren't going to make it as far.
Same applies for tires as they're being scraped, grinded, or whatever you want to call it during tire slides.

AT LEAST in my experience with tire experimentation.

bobPA wrote:

I am not going to try and change your mind. But you are denying simple physics. I know it is hard to admit being wrong, but you are incorrect on this one.

It does not matter if the tire is being drug at a 32 degree angle and your dick is out or any other goofy situation you make up. A slick tire will always have a greater contact patch, ergo more rubber on the surface, ergo more grip (taking into account the rubber compounds, tire pressures, etc. are the same)

Your knurled peg argument is way off base. A knurled peg hangs up on concrete because it digs into the concrete, or a steel rail digs into the knurled aluminum peg. A tire does not dig in, it slides. And a slick tire will not slide as easy as a knobby tire.

You need to take a general physics class, because you will lose this argument every time. Read about the coefficient of friction.

Lol. I'm not saying I'm right nor that I even fully understand the physics of what "actually" happens in a tire slide. I am simply stating my personal experience (maybe you should take a class on what that means) in a real-world scenario dealing with doing tire-slides on street spots, since it was brought up.

Are you implying that I'm making up my own experience to contradict your physics? If knobby tires actually worked better for me doing tire slides, I'm sure I would still be riding some? Maybe I just break the laws of physics when I ride, who knows?

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1/27/2019 1:12 PM

Also, why do so many BMX companies extend the knobby side-treads of their tires down the side-wall for the purpose of wall-rides, if that knobby tread is in fact more likely to slip out rather than grip & help lock in?

And I know plenty of riders other than myself that also have experience with doing wall-rides with both slick tires and knobby(at least on the sidewall) tires that will all vouch for the knobbier tires gripping better for that trick.

Again, tires for motor/transportation vehicles are designed with different purposes in mind than crazy mofos that bend the laws of physics on their BMX bikes..

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1/27/2019 1:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/27/2019 2:03 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Also, why do so many BMX companies extend the knobby side-treads of their tires down the side-wall for the purpose of wall-rides, if that knobby tread is in fact more likely to slip out rather than grip & help lock in?

And I know plenty of riders other than myself that also have experience with doing wall-rides with both slick tires and knobby(at least on the sidewall) tires that will all vouch for the knobbier tires gripping better for that trick.

Again, tires for motor/transportation vehicles are designed with different purposes in mind than crazy mofos that bend the laws of physics on their BMX bikes..

I am guessing the knobby tires are made of a softer rubber compound or are run at a lower air pressure. Look at trials bike tires, densely pack knobs and made of gooey soft rubber. Do not last for shit, but man do they grip.

MX (dirt bike) tires are deigned for all kinds of stuff. Soft terrain tires have wide spaced and tall knobs Hard terrain tires are designed with slightly lower knobs, that are closer together. I wonder why they do that? Companies like Dunlop, Michelin, and Pirelli are certainly not skimping on R&D, and yet most of their tires have common traits depending on what they are designed for.

No one bends the laws of physics. They are laws BTW. I love that you refer to it as “my physics”, no chief...it is based on actual physics. You know, science and hypotenuses and shit.

Feebles and tire slides would be worse with a knobby tire, because the knobs will hang up on the ledge, curb, whatever...I agree there

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1/27/2019 2:07 PM

TheDarkEnergist wrote:

Much scarier is street/park tires on dirt.

Don't do that.

Especially if it’s wet.

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1/27/2019 2:13 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

More tread = easier to slide out?

I dunno about that one.. That's like saying knurled pegs will slide better than regular smooth pegs lol

Bulletpup wrote:

Knurled tires are for digging in to softer surfaces to get traction. Have you ever tried riding a street motorcycle on dirt or a dirtbike on pavement? It feels alright till you take a hard turn. When you turn and put all the bikes weight on a few knobs, they move around and do not provide a stable feeling. More rubber contact=better traction/stability. Smoother tires have more rubber to wrap around pavement and cement and are better for carving on hard surfaces.

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Nope, haven't rode any motorcycles. I do however have many years of first hand experience testing different BMX tires on street spots all over the country, and I can confirm that I've had knobby tires (Ex. Fly Ruben Rampera) that were an actual hassle to use for tire slide tricks, and slick tires (Ex. Fit T/A) that were so slick, I'd wash out left and right on simple tricks & tire slides felt like cutting through butter.

I understand what you're saying, but I believe the real-life applications of Motorcycles and Street BMX Riding are a little different.. at least in my personal experiences ?

Fair enough. :-)

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1/27/2019 2:15 PM

TheDarkEnergist wrote:

Much scarier is street/park tires on dirt.

Don't do that.

JPC wrote:

Especially if it’s wet.

Should not be riding wet dirt jumps unless the water is there from them just being watered, soaked jumps will break easily

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Hmmm

1/27/2019 2:15 PM

bobPA wrote:

I am guessing the knobby tires are made of a softer rubber compound or are run at a lower air pressure. Look at trials bike tires, densely pack knobs and made of gooey soft rubber. Do not last for shit, but man do they grip.

MX (dirt bike) tires are deigned for all kinds of stuff. Soft terrain tires have wide spaced and tall knobs Hard terrain tires are designed with slightly lower knobs, that are closer together. I wonder why they do that? Companies like Dunlop, Michelin, and Pirelli are certainly not skimping on R&D, and yet most of their tires have common traits depending on what they are designed for.

No one bends the laws of physics. They are laws BTW. I love that you refer to it as “my physics”, no chief...it is based on actual physics. You know, science and hypotenuses and shit.

Feebles and tire slides would be worse with a knobby tire, because the knobs will hang up on the ledge, curb, whatever...I agree there

"You know, science and hypotenuses and shit" laughing

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1/27/2019 2:29 PM

TheDarkEnergist wrote:

Much scarier is street/park tires on dirt.

Don't do that.

JPC wrote:

Especially if it’s wet.

Edman123 wrote:

Should not be riding wet dirt jumps unless the water is there from them just being watered, soaked jumps will break easily

I actually read the comment backwards

Wet concrete + knobby tires = scary

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1/27/2019 4:24 PM

I’ve rode 1.9 eastern burnout slicks , as slick as they get , but they gripped amazing on concrete parks , dusty dirt not so much

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1/27/2019 6:27 PM

My Primo WLT's washed out like crazy on the rough/ shitty streets around me. Switched to Mainline tires and never had that problem again.

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1/27/2019 6:39 PM

Bryan91 wrote:

My Primo WLT's washed out like crazy on the rough/ shitty streets around me. Switched to Mainline tires and never had that problem again.

I too had slick WLTs and they were very slippery on most surfaces.. Went to knobby Flys after that and they gripped too much on most surfaces (for my taste)

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1/27/2019 7:26 PM

Anytime I've had slick tires they've fuckin sucked and didn't grab. Anytime I've ridden a more all around tire with a more aggressive tread like the Fit FAFs or Animal GLHs, they've grabbed much better. Just because something should theoretically grab better doesn't mean it actually does/will because from the slicker tires I've ridden I can say for certain they washed out more than any other tire I've ridden.

Even the new Odyssey Path Pro tires are a bit too slick for my liking so I only run them in the rear, and only because they had some tread on the sides cause when I rode slick tires in the back I'd try wallride 180s and fall right off the wall... any other tire was fine, on the same wall.


obviously more factors go into these things but from my experiences slick tires are ass

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1/27/2019 11:40 PM

I think maybe why some people find knobby tyres more grippy is that if they are ran at the same pressure as slicks the tread is more flexibility so they end up with a larger contact area.

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Hmmm

1/28/2019 5:37 AM

I wouldn’t really describe ramperas or mainlines as knobby tyres though. This is what I think of as knobby, and I would not want to ride them on a concrete park.Photo

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1/28/2019 10:25 AM

Spongeworthy wrote:

I wouldn’t really describe ramperas or mainlines as knobby tyres though. This is what I think of as knobby, and I would not want to ride them on a concrete park.Photo

They are pretty knobby for today's tires.
I am comparing slick, treadless tires (Primo WLTs, Fit TAs, Stranger Hazes, etc.) to popular aggressive treaded tires (Fly Rubens, Fit FAFs, Cult Deharts, etc.)

Now I've been riding Donnasqueaks for years. Literally my most favorite tire I've ever rode. Slick center tread for buttery fakie tire slides, and an aggressive FAF-style side tread for preventing wipe-outs and slipping out of wall-rides.



P.S. Tire slides on rough obstacles are my fav?
Photo

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