Does The "Perfect" Frame Geometry Exist?

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6/7/2021 4:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/7/2021 4:56 PM

I'm just curious what everyone's opinion is on this. I thought I had my perfect frame. Took my experiences from past frames & got Laird to make me a custom. 21" TT, 75 HT, 71 STA, 12.8 CS, 11.5 BBH, 8.5 SOH. I still ride it but since then I've tried it I've wanted to try others... And have... & I don't know. Some were great.

The Kink Titan II is IMO the best frame for middle of the road people. It's an amazing frame.

The Cult Hawk frame felt like a struggle to ride. I think it's the long rear & 74.5 HT. Getting into a Smith grind was a choir. This is a ramp rider frame.

On the other spectrum the Cult 2 Short scared the shit out of me. Granted. The ease of Smiths was amazing... But I felt squirrelly as hell. I think the 12.5 is fine but that 75.5 HT made me feel like I was going over the bars anytime I did anything.

So In hindsight you would figure I'd just stick to my custom frame right? No. I'm already looking at the next frame (most likely the Volume Voyager). Which leads me to the question.

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6/7/2021 5:19 PM

Just wondering, why did you choose 12.8 over something like 12.9? Assuming you run a 25 tooth sprocket

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6/7/2021 5:26 PM

11.5 is perfect for ramp and street, 75 is standard nowadays. One of the most sold sig frame the BTM is a quarter inch taller standover and a quarter inch longer rear end.

Kink Titan looks close to your custom. Props if you can ride a frame with cs under 13.
Hawk is def a ramp frame, but people ride street with it too. At 13.5ish the rear really isnt that long. Anything over 13.75 is where snappiness and stabillity start to blend. It feels snappy still but can feel sluggish if you are really riding street, but stable at speeds and on ramps. Remember bb plays a big role in how the bike feels. Some dont care, but it def affects how the bike feels. The lower it is, the more stable it will feel.

If you dont like the 75.5, run a smaller tire in the back. And/or try a longer offset fork.

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6/7/2021 5:31 PM

snailz wrote:

Just wondering, why did you choose 12.8 over something like 12.9? Assuming you run a 25 tooth sprocket

Yes I do. I choose 12.8 because I felt like 12.5 was too short at the time but I wanted to try something under 13.

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6/7/2021 5:36 PM

hoffdirt1 wrote:

11.5 is perfect for ramp and street, 75 is standard nowadays. One of the most sold sig frame the BTM is a quarter inch taller ...more

I feel like 12.8 isn't bad. I don't think 12.5 isn't even bad if all you do is grind like me. Especially since I like doing Smiths.

But that's the thing. 13.5 is long for today's standards. And I rode a Skavenger Tunnel & S&M Tallboy. I got the Kink Titan II & the 13" was amazing. Then when I tried the Skapegoat T1 it felt impossible.

That's why I'm posing the question. I thought my current custom would be my end all be all & I'm sitting here wanting something new.

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6/7/2021 5:44 PM

The perfect geometry does exist but it is dependent per persons tastes, does the perfect geo exist for everyone IE one geo fits all, no. And again tastes can change over time so it's not always perfect.

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6/7/2021 5:51 PM

Cellmember wrote:

The perfect geometry does exist but it is dependent per persons tastes, does the perfect geo exist for everyone IE one geo ...more

It sucks. Lol. Like skateboarders shit is cheap. They can just switch shit & not have to worry about breaking the bank. We have to mortgage our house to get a frame that might not be the one.

Of course I understand why. Just wish I could just buy frames & not have to think about it.

I also feel like shit for spending 475 on a frame just to want to go buy something else.

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6/7/2021 5:59 PM

Hahah ya Elf and Scerbo have been riding the same setups for over 20years. Dont think theyll be changing now.

So get the Titan ii and ride that, if you love it sell the Laird, somebody would buy it in heartbeat.

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6/7/2021 6:14 PM

hoffdirt1 wrote:

Hahah ya Elf and Scerbo have been riding the same setups for over 20years. Dont think theyll be changing now.

So get the ...more

LOL. They really have been.

But I love my Laird. It's by far the best I ever had. But After trying the 2 Short I'm now curious on what a 12.5 cs & a 75.2 would feel like. I've already sold 2 Titan IIs. LOL. Besides. I can't sell the Laird. It's my Tiseo frame. That's going on the wall when it's done.

I think basically what I'm saying is does anyone that says they feel they have the perfect geo ever go "I wonder how this would feel" & go out & buy new stuff even though they have what they want already.

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6/7/2021 6:31 PM

I ran a cult Dak frame(13,25" backend,75° headtube,9.25 SOH)for around 8 months for street and park,when it was well used and due for a swap I bought a cult 2 short which I ran for a year,I found it extremely twitchy and responsive compared to my Dak frame,the 12.5 CS,75,5 head tube and 8,65" SOH(I believe it's 8.65)was quite a difference,it helped alot like rotations,smiths,whips and getting into manuals(holding one was tough though)I liked it and ran it for a while but the entire time I had it I was wondering what a different frame would feel like,so about a month ago I put a Fiend Reynolds v2 together,the 13" CS,75.5° head tube and 9" SOH all combined make one of the best feeling frames I've ever ridin
Side note about the 2 short,I've always run 20.75" and felt I should have got a 21" 2 short,for some reason the TT feels smaller then it actually is..maybe the seat tube angle but I'm not certain

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6/7/2021 6:34 PM

audz_bmx wrote:

I ran a cult Dak frame(13,25" backend,75 headtube,9.25 SOH)for around 8 months for street and park,when it was well used and ...more

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sits & wonders. LOL. But you're 100% right. That STA makes the 2 short feel small as hell.

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6/7/2021 6:58 PM

My tastes seem to continue to change but I think generally a ~13” CS, ~9 ST and 21TT is what I have been most comfortable with. My first build several years ago was a TallBoy and still love that geo.

IMO I really like the chain stays lengths that are well-engineered based on chain length and gear ratios. Having a 12.5 CS sounds really good until you realize that actually slamming it at 12.5 gives you a super sloppy chain (25/9). the Mixtape has a 12.65 CS which sounds really odd, but it also can be slammed without having crazy amount of slop in the chain.

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6/7/2021 7:04 PM

hoffdirt1 wrote:

Hahah ya Elf and Scerbo have been riding the same setups for over 20years. Dont think theyll be changing now.

So get the ...more

I’m with elf, my skapegoat is pretty perfect. Anything I ride now would have to be at least similar

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6/7/2021 7:04 PM

vagabond wrote:

My tastes seem to continue to change but I think generally a ~13” CS, ~9 ST and 21TT is what I have been most comfortable ...more

Nah. The 12.5 was perfect for my chain. It was actually the first time I could slam it & have the slack I want.

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6/7/2021 7:20 PM

vagabond wrote:

My tastes seem to continue to change but I think generally a ~13” CS, ~9 ST and 21TT is what I have been most comfortable ...more

WiteMic wrote:

Nah. The 12.5 was perfect for my chain. It was actually the first time I could slam it & have the slack I want.

Really? I could never get a half-link to slam on a 12.5. Were you using a 25/9? If so, in all seriousness tell me how.

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6/7/2021 7:21 PM

audz_bmx wrote:

I ran a cult Dak frame(13,25" backend,75 headtube,9.25 SOH)for around 8 months for street and park,when it was well used and ...more

WiteMic wrote:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sits & wonders. LOL. But you're 100% right. That STA makes the 2 short feel small as ...more

I think that was my biggest gripe about the 2 short all in all,the TT felt way too small,the Reynolds v2 has a 71° STA and it's crazy but that extra 1° makes the whole bike feel better

Also my 2 short was the same,I had it slammed and finally had the right amount of chain slack for my riding haha

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6/7/2021 7:23 PM

vagabond wrote:

My tastes seem to continue to change but I think generally a ~13” CS, ~9 ST and 21TT is what I have been most comfortable ...more

WiteMic wrote:

Nah. The 12.5 was perfect for my chain. It was actually the first time I could slam it & have the slack I want.

vagabond wrote:

Really? I could never get a half-link to slam on a 12.5. Were you using a 25/9? If so, in all seriousness tell me how.

Lol. It's probably the sta honestly. But I also like a loose chain.

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6/7/2021 8:43 PM

Perfect geometry is subjective

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It’s all bmx

6/7/2021 9:08 PM

adamnmexican wrote:

Perfect geometry is subjective

I know. I'm asking for people's personal opinion on frame geo.

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6/7/2021 9:39 PM

Cellmember wrote:

The perfect geometry does exist but it is dependent per persons tastes, does the perfect geo exist for everyone IE one geo ...more

^ Yep

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It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult: Seneca

6/7/2021 10:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/7/2021 10:05 PM

No it doesn’t ,
Now it’s time to get over it , If there was one I would have found it by now and got bored of bikes

Instead of blaming your bike why don’t you look in the mirror and see what you can improve as a rider , you might learn something

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6/7/2021 10:15 PM

eskimojay wrote:

No it doesn’t ,
Now it’s time to get over it , If there was one I would have found it by now and got bored of bikes

Instead ...more

Wow. Idk what you read but I think you need to find some Vicodin and chill out. You got real aggressive for no reason my guy.

This was just a general question on if people thought their perfect geo existed or if they already found it & still look at other frames.

You took this way out of proportion. Chill.

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6/8/2021 4:12 AM

eskimojay wrote:

No it doesn’t ,
Now it’s time to get over it , If there was one I would have found it by now and got bored of bikes

Instead ...more

Best answer

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It’s all bmx

6/8/2021 4:29 AM

Cellmember wrote:

The perfect geometry does exist but it is dependent per persons tastes, does the perfect geo exist for everyone IE one geo ...more

WiteMic wrote:

It sucks. Lol. Like skateboarders shit is cheap. They can just switch shit & not have to worry about breaking the bank. We ...more

You CAN buy a frame and not worry.

I did. I bought my Radio knowing the TT was 1/2 inch longer than my old frame, and that was about it.

It is still the best frame geometry I have run. Each frame I go to tends to be better than the previous.

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

6/8/2021 7:39 AM

I'm on my second custom fbm, both felt exactly how I wanted them to. But I'd still like to try something else. I think slight changes in geometry make things feel fresh. But you're going to get used to most things and it not make a huge difference

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6/8/2021 8:12 AM

.pegless. wrote:

I'm on my second custom fbm, both felt exactly how I wanted them to. But I'd still like to try something else. I think slight ...more

This is exactly how I feel lol. Like I got the Laird custom. Felt great. Then I started wondering about what if THIS HT was on THIS CS. Or what if I had THIS BBH on what I have now.

I feel like that meme of that guy walking with his girlfriend and another woman passes & I look. Lol.

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6/8/2021 8:15 AM

Favorite probably exists.... perfect probably does not.

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6/8/2021 8:18 AM

.pegless. wrote:

I'm on my second custom fbm, both felt exactly how I wanted them to. But I'd still like to try something else. I think slight ...more

WiteMic wrote:

This is exactly how I feel lol. Like I got the Laird custom. Felt great. Then I started wondering about what if THIS HT was on ...more

Thing is, it won't make a huge difference. You either feel comfortable on a bike, or you don't. That's how I see it anyway. Next I want to go slightly longer tt and cs. Mainly just to see if I feel more comfortable with higher hops.
I had a v1 fbm hardway and it felt far too responsive and unstable, but I could still do all the same stuff on it, I just didn't feel as confident.

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6/8/2021 8:28 AM

.pegless. wrote:

I'm on my second custom fbm, both felt exactly how I wanted them to. But I'd still like to try something else. I think slight ...more

WiteMic wrote:

This is exactly how I feel lol. Like I got the Laird custom. Felt great. Then I started wondering about what if THIS HT was on ...more

.pegless. wrote:

Thing is, it won't make a huge difference. You either feel comfortable on a bike, or you don't. That's how I see it anyway. ...more

I know it won't make a huge difference... But the thought of trying something new is so dope. I still have the Cult Hawk frame even though the Geo isn't my cup of tea I feel like I want to go back to it every once in awhile.

I might just end up like Jason Enns & collecting frames. Lol

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6/8/2021 8:35 AM

I honestly don’t know if I have a “perfect” geometry for me. Instead I find that I grow emotional attachments to frames that I own long enough to progress or learn difficult tricks on. I guess that I associate my ideal geometry with the frames that I learned the most on or I rode when I broke through a specific trick barrier. In reality, I probably would have progressed the same on multiple frame geos, but I just overthink it and tell myself that “that geo must really work for me”.

In retrospect it’s funny that I work so hard to either achieve or perfect a certain trick and then attribute my ability to execute to the frame’s geo.

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