Folding vs non folding

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12/30/2017 9:50 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/30/2017 9:53 AM

I just bought another Maxxis riser, so I have a matching pair now, and they are folding tires btw. It got me thinking, why are steel beads considered stronger, and better for street? I don't grind much these days, so I'm not really worried about durability, although they do have a wraparound tread, that seams pretty durable. Not too sticky either. It seems like the folding variety of tires are getting harder and harder to find. It doesn't make much sense to me, why they would be weaker. I would think it all comes down to the tpi of the casing, and the thickness of the rubber. What I'm thinking is it's easier to make money with the steel beads, so they tell us they are stronger. Maybe they actually are, but I'm very skeptical myself. Anyone have any insight on this? Maybe a lot of folding tires were made thinner to save weight, and they got a bad reputation? I'm pretty sure folding can be just as strong as non folding, and lighter too.

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12/30/2017 10:16 AM

I love lightweight folding tyres. From now on I'm only going to buy folding after my current front tyre wears out, having a nice folding tyre makes the bike feel a lot more responsive but also I find that you can control your speed better since you accelerate faster and slow down faster.
When my valour wears out I'm getting a 2.2 DTH and maybe running tubeless.
Ps: I think folding tyres are getting rarer because there isn't as much money in bmx these days so companies are kind of doing the bare minimum because they can't afford to do anything new.

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Hmmm

12/30/2017 10:35 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/30/2017 10:38 AM

In my experience, there isn't any difference in strength or durability between the two.

However, most folding tires are designed to be incredibly light. A lot of them (Maxxis and KHE in mind) are not only Kevlar beaded, but are paper thin and obviously not very durable for rough concrete or grind damage. This kind of creates a stigma that folding tires arent for street, though personally I've rode paper thin wire bead tires (Demolition Momentums) that were just as bad for street riding.

My all time favorite tires were the Fit FAF-K Folding tires. They lasted me over a year of street riding before wearing down to the bead, because they use the same thickness rubber and design as the regular wire bead FAFs. I rarely even got a flat tire with them..

Literally the only thing the bead is there to do is keep the rubber from over-expanding and exploding. Kevlar is just as effective at doing so as steel, but a little bit more expensive and noticeably lighter.

The durability and longevity of a tire is almost always dependant on the rubber.

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12/30/2017 10:35 AM

The casing is Kevlar on most tyres if I remember correctly, what differs is the bead.

I'd imagine it's just cheaper, easier and good enough to use steel for the bead.

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12/30/2017 10:38 AM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

In my experience, there isn't any difference in strength or durability between the two.

However, most folding tires are designed to be incredibly light. A lot of them (Maxxis and KHE in mind) are not only Kevlar beaded, but are paper thin and obviously not very durable for rough concrete or grind damage. This kind of creates a stigma that folding tires arent for street, though personally I've rode paper thin wire bead tires (Demolition Momentums) that were just as bad for street riding.

My all time favorite tires were the Fit FAF-K Folding tires. They lasted me over a year of street riding before wearing down to the bead, because they use the same thickness rubber and design as the regular wire bead FAFs. I rarely even got a flat tire with them..

Literally the only thing the bead is there to do is keep the rubber from over-expanding and exploding. Kevlar is just as effective at doing so as steel, but a little bit more expensive and noticeably lighter.

The durability and longevity of a tire is almost always dependant on the rubber.

Correction, the bead is there to lock into the rim. What you're talking about is the casing.

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12/30/2017 10:57 AM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

In my experience, there isn't any difference in strength or durability between the two.

However, most folding tires are designed to be incredibly light. A lot of them (Maxxis and KHE in mind) are not only Kevlar beaded, but are paper thin and obviously not very durable for rough concrete or grind damage. This kind of creates a stigma that folding tires arent for street, though personally I've rode paper thin wire bead tires (Demolition Momentums) that were just as bad for street riding.

My all time favorite tires were the Fit FAF-K Folding tires. They lasted me over a year of street riding before wearing down to the bead, because they use the same thickness rubber and design as the regular wire bead FAFs. I rarely even got a flat tire with them..

Literally the only thing the bead is there to do is keep the rubber from over-expanding and exploding. Kevlar is just as effective at doing so as steel, but a little bit more expensive and noticeably lighter.

The durability and longevity of a tire is almost always dependant on the rubber.

p1p1092 wrote:

Correction, the bead is there to lock into the rim. What you're talking about is the casing.

You are right, but the same still applies. It's still just as effective.tongue

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12/30/2017 11:06 AM

I think price puts a lot of people off. So brands don't make as many (if at all). It's about £120 for a pair of khe mac2's and I ripped an inch hole in one of them first time I rode it (because they're so thin, and I rode over a chunk of glass). That's a lot of money for something that's going to wear out. So, I agree that the super thin light weight foldable tyres gave them a bad rep. But the price is also a factor.

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12/30/2017 11:07 AM

Steel Bead. I don't trust flimsy tires.

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12/30/2017 11:11 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

I think price puts a lot of people off. So brands don't make as many (if at all). It's about £120 for a pair of khe mac2's and I ripped an inch hole in one of them first time I rode it (because they're so thin, and I rode over a chunk of glass). That's a lot of money for something that's going to wear out. So, I agree that the super thin light weight foldable tyres gave them a bad rep. But the price is also a factor.

Even price didn't bother me too much.. That being said, I'd never buy a $60 KHE tire, that's ridiculous.. But FAFs were like $28 and FAF-Ks were about $40. $12 more to save 5oz of rotational weight and still last longer than a year was a bargain to me.

I really miss those tiresermm

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12/30/2017 11:26 AM

I buy Maxxis tyres because they are guaranteed to be good every single time, they have millions to spend on researching their tyres and a lot of that is bike tyres.
They make the best tyres for mtb, good tyres for road and great tyres for bmx and they have the funding from all of them to develop their tyres.

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Hmmm

12/30/2017 11:28 AM

I don’t think there’s much difference in strength I’ve rode both back and forth , I think it’s more so freestyle bmx is loaded with a bunch of broke riders so the market for foldable tires isn’t there , racing on the other hand has more money in it , that’s why foldable are bigger in racing

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12/30/2017 11:32 AM

Idk if it’s just shitty luck but I had 3 aggressive tread FAF folding tires and each one of them developed a “wobble” look even when fully seated. like the tire was bent or something, it wasn’t the wheel. Never had that problem with the wire beads so idk if the folding ones are more prone to that happening or if I got 3 shitty tires in a row all purchased at different times

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12/30/2017 12:08 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Even price didn't bother me too much.. That being said, I'd never buy a $60 KHE tire, that's ridiculous.. But FAFs were like $28 and FAF-Ks were about $40. $12 more to save 5oz of rotational weight and still last longer than a year was a bargain to me.

I really miss those tiresermm

FAF Steel bead tires are 50-55$ here and a KHE Lacey tire was 80$

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12/30/2017 12:35 PM

Brayden_Buckingham wrote:

FAF Steel bead tires are 50-55$ here and a KHE Lacey tire was 80$

KHE Lacey folding tyres are the shit! Getting harder to find in Europe though. The Eclat Mirage foldings are pretty good alternatives though smile.

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12/30/2017 12:37 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Even price didn't bother me too much.. That being said, I'd never buy a $60 KHE tire, that's ridiculous.. But FAFs were like $28 and FAF-Ks were about $40. $12 more to save 5oz of rotational weight and still last longer than a year was a bargain to me.

I really miss those tiresermm

Brayden_Buckingham wrote:

FAF Steel bead tires are 50-55$ here and a KHE Lacey tire was 80$

p1p1092 wrote:

KHE Lacey folding tyres are the shit! Getting harder to find in Europe though. The Eclat Mirage foldings are pretty good alternatives though smile.

I think Khe sells direct so have a look on their website

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Hmmm

12/30/2017 12:41 PM

Edman123 wrote:

I think Khe sells direct so have a look on their website

Hadn't been on there in a long time, you're right! Only €30 per tyre w00t !

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
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"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

12/30/2017 1:14 PM

p1p1092 wrote:

KHE Lacey folding tyres are the shit! Getting harder to find in Europe though. The Eclat Mirage foldings are pretty good alternatives though smile.

Edman123 wrote:

I think Khe sells direct so have a look on their website

p1p1092 wrote:

Hadn't been on there in a long time, you're right! Only €30 per tyre w00t !

Your welcome

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Hmmm

12/30/2017 3:35 PM

What ever happened with Webbie’s KHE tire? If it holds up to his riding, it must be somewhat decent.

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12/30/2017 3:51 PM

readybmxer wrote:

What ever happened with Webbie’s KHE tire? If it holds up to his riding, it must be somewhat decent.

That thing is 13oz I would never be able to trust it.. especially after getting daily flats with their 16oz tire. Ended up riding my Mac Street tire for a few weeks and then sold it because it was worth more dollars than days it would have lasted if I kept riding it. + i probably spent the tire's worth in tubes in the time I had itdizzy

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12/30/2017 4:51 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/30/2017 4:51 PM

readybmxer wrote:

What ever happened with Webbie’s KHE tire? If it holds up to his riding, it must be somewhat decent.

Seen on him doing a bike check not to long ago he said they kept exploding on him and he’s going to be switching off of them , pretty sure it’s on his YouTube channel somewhere

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12/31/2017 10:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/31/2017 11:36 AM

Wow I just checked the khe site, and it looks like thier prices have dropped a lot. Kinda wish I saw that before. At least I already know that I love the Maxxis rizer. It's an amazing tire all around. If your not into the slicks that are insanely popular right now, try the rizers. You won't be disappointed.

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12/31/2017 10:46 AM

ggallin422 wrote:

Wow I just checked the khe site, and it looks like thier prices have dropped a lot. Kinda wish I saw that before. At least I already know that I love the Maxxis rizer. It's an amazing tire all around. If your not into the slicks that are insanely popular right now, try the rizers. You won't be disappointed.

The Rizers look incredible.

I've settled for Donnasqueaks the past couple years. Extremely light for a wire-beaded street tire, and they've proven to be super durable and puncture proof aswell.

I'll never understand why people want to run 40oz tires.. that shit feels horrible.

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12/31/2017 11:11 AM

I'm now divided between wanting a 2.1 Grifter I the rear and a 2.2 DTH up front or to get two Maxxis torches in 1.95 and 2.2 the torches look a bit faster but I still don't know much about them.

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Hmmm

12/31/2017 11:14 AM

Edman123 wrote:

I'm now divided between wanting a 2.1 Grifter I the rear and a 2.2 DTH up front or to get two Maxxis torches in 1.95 and 2.2 the torches look a bit faster but I still don't know much about them.

I think all of those are really thin race tires, except for the grifters, which are park/light street. Even those are pretty thin, but I've heard great things about them.

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12/31/2017 11:17 AM

Edman123 wrote:

I'm now divided between wanting a 2.1 Grifter I the rear and a 2.2 DTH up front or to get two Maxxis torches in 1.95 and 2.2 the torches look a bit faster but I still don't know much about them.

I just got 2 2.1 foldable maxxis grifters , when they showed up my mind was blown about how light they are , never held a tire that light

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12/31/2017 11:18 AM

Edman123 wrote:

I'm now divided between wanting a 2.1 Grifter I the rear and a 2.2 DTH up front or to get two Maxxis torches in 1.95 and 2.2 the torches look a bit faster but I still don't know much about them.

ggallin422 wrote:

I think all of those are really thin race tires, except for the grifters, which are park/light street. Even those are pretty thin, but I've heard great things about them.

I have Grifter in the back now I did have one in the front but I gave it to my friend who was struggling with whips and it helped him a bit.
I'm going tubeless eventually so I'm not worried about flats and the sidewalls on the Grifter are very strong, the more I think about it the more I want two matching tyres. Combined with the fact that the torches look a bit faster I think I'll probably get those.

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Hmmm

12/31/2017 11:19 AM

Edman123 wrote:

I'm now divided between wanting a 2.1 Grifter I the rear and a 2.2 DTH up front or to get two Maxxis torches in 1.95 and 2.2 the torches look a bit faster but I still don't know much about them.

eskimojay wrote:

I just got 2 2.1 foldable maxxis grifters , when they showed up my mind was blown about how light they are , never held a tire that light

Yeah I had the foldable Grifters in 2.1 but now I only have one in the back because I gave one to a friend.

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Hmmm

12/31/2017 11:19 AM

ggallin422 wrote:

Wow I just checked the khe site, and it looks like thier prices have dropped a lot. Kinda wish I saw that before. At least I already know that I love the Maxxis rizer. It's an amazing tire all around. If your not into the slicks that are insanely popular right now, try the rizers. You won't be disappointed.

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

The Rizers look incredible.

I've settled for Donnasqueaks the past couple years. Extremely light for a wire-beaded street tire, and they've proven to be super durable and puncture proof aswell.

I'll never understand why people want to run 40oz tires.. that shit feels horrible.

I'd really like to try the donnasqueeks as my next pair of tires. On the bsd website it says something like "our tires are made by the best tire manufacturer" and they also say they use silkworm technology. The only other company I have ever heard that uses silkworm casing is Maxxis. Combine that with them saying, they are made by the best tire company, I'm pretty sure Maxxis makes the donnasqueeks, which would also explain why they are so good. Anyone know if this is true?

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12/31/2017 11:33 AM

ggallin422 wrote:

I'd really like to try the donnasqueeks as my next pair of tires. On the bsd website it says something like "our tires are made by the best tire manufacturer" and they also say they use silkworm technology. The only other company I have ever heard that uses silkworm casing is Maxxis. Combine that with them saying, they are made by the best tire company, I'm pretty sure Maxxis makes the donnasqueeks, which would also explain why they are so good. Anyone know if this is true?

Not sure on that one. Pretty sure Kenda makes majority of company's tires. Fly bikes and a few other companies claim to use silk-worm casing aswell.

I dont even know what the silk worm technology is exactly, but if it means I can run a super light tire without blowing it out then I fuck with it haha

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12/31/2017 12:00 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

The Rizers look incredible.

I've settled for Donnasqueaks the past couple years. Extremely light for a wire-beaded street tire, and they've proven to be super durable and puncture proof aswell.

I'll never understand why people want to run 40oz tires.. that shit feels horrible.

ggallin422 wrote:

I'd really like to try the donnasqueeks as my next pair of tires. On the bsd website it says something like "our tires are made by the best tire manufacturer" and they also say they use silkworm technology. The only other company I have ever heard that uses silkworm casing is Maxxis. Combine that with them saying, they are made by the best tire company, I'm pretty sure Maxxis makes the donnasqueeks, which would also explain why they are so good. Anyone know if this is true?

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Not sure on that one. Pretty sure Kenda makes majority of company's tires. Fly bikes and a few other companies claim to use silk-worm casing aswell.

I dont even know what the silk worm technology is exactly, but if it means I can run a super light tire without blowing it out then I fuck with it haha

Yeah if a companies tyres are made by Maxxis I'm fairly sure they would say so

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Hmmm