Heavy vs. Light frame pros and cons

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7/23/2017 8:07 AM

Hey I'm just looking for some of your guy's opinions on heavy vs. lighter frames. What's the advantages of both and the disadvantages? Doing research on a Dk S.O.B. frame I just bought and it's real heavy. Over 30 pounds apparently. I've always been a fan of lighter bikes myself but it seems like a lot of the people I meet have pretty stout bikes and I'm not sure why that is.

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7/23/2017 8:25 AM

First your bike is 30 lbs not specifically just your frame

A heavier frame should be more resistant to dents and bends , and will usually feel a lot more stiff . A lighter frame wil be light , and that's it really . You can have a light frame but heavy components and not go anywhere with it lol

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Instagram : braydenbuckingham
My Cult 2 Short

7/23/2017 9:36 AM

With technology now a days, frames are able to built light while keeping structural integrity. But you will also pay for quality. Like the Sunday sound wave for example is built pretty light but with their unique tube designs they're able to keep the frame pretty damn strong. On most bikes the welds are most likely to fail before anything else. But now with investment casting they are able to improve on that problem also.

If you buy a older frame it will be most likely heavy. Because back then they just made the tubing thicker to improve strength but increasing wieght also.

It also depends on you type of ridding style. If you ride a lot of trails you might want a medium wieght bike to keep up momentum fro the next jump. If you ride lot of park, you might want something on the lighter end for maximum bike control. It may also just come down to personal preference. But in my my mind heaven is never good. Another thing people tend not to think about is wheel wieght. Especially with every body riding fatter tires nowadays. (2.3/2.4). With fatter heavier tires it adds something called rotational wieght which will significantly effect the amount of bike control you have, especially with spinning. I typically like to use tires that are under 20oz. Like Maxxis, KHE, demolition momentums, or any other featherweight or folding tire. For wheels I've always trusted Odyssey and Gsport for wieght and strength.

The average wieght for a modern day complete BMX bike is about 25 lbs. they're some riders that been able to get their bikes as light as 19lbs.

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7/23/2017 9:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/23/2017 9:56 AM

Ehh I rode a rather light frame/bike setup for years. Now my bike is quite heavy and oddly I like the feeling quite a bit better. Feels more confidence inspiring throwing it around, and more solid on landings. If you're heavy into park lightness can have it's advantages. I've always been into a light tire/wheel combo on a tank frame kit. Now I have just heavy everywhere and it's not too shabby.

Only goes so far, at a certain point IMO a bike can be too heavy. I mean mid school videos say otherwise, but no way can any of those dudes walk straight today! My bikes probably the heaviest I'd go at 26.5 or so, before this bike my setup had been about 20 lbs. The difference is very noticeable, but for my style it's for the better. Most people wouldn't fancy a 14" rear end, whereas I love it.

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Refs: Future FBM, Warchol2 WtfKennethXp Riversiderider TCbmx Riversiderider JakeSalbert

7/23/2017 11:18 AM

Dk S.O.B. That frame is legendary Colin winkleman was the man

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7/23/2017 11:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/23/2017 11:32 AM

If a bike is too light it feels unstable. And over engineered parts tend to fail quicker. If a bike is too heavy, it's hard to throw around.
Same with frames, to make it lighter, they use less material. Materials now are better quality than in the mid days, as are the engineering processes used manufacture. Mid frames were often over built to compensate, and a lot still broke. (more riders, the Internet, and social media would suggest stuff breaks more now, but the actual percentage of parts that break now is probably less)

It's about balance. We learned a lot on the early new school days when being light was a trend, and everything broke.
Bike parts are pretty much the best they've ever been now. There's a happy medium of lighter and stronger than mid parts, without being over engineered to the point it's weak.
Welding is better now too, so frames very rarely snap on the weld, but will crack near it (HAZ, heat affected zone) if the welding isn't great (over heating during welding weakens the material in the HAZ).
An average weight frame now is about the best you'll get.

Edit: geometry also plays a massive part in how a bike rides. Short chainstays and high bars make it a lot easier to lift the front end. Etc.

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7/24/2017 1:13 PM

Everyone is pretty spot on on this one.

Engineering has improved to make solid frames that are decently light
Welding is better (less HAZ = less likely to snap along the weld)
We have better materials and more knowledge

Wheels-Heavier =harder to throw the bike around-even with a light frame. Rotational weight is a BIG factor in control.

A good mid range weight is 20-25 lbs. Most completes now are around 25lbs give or take a couple lbs.

Ultimately that SOB is a rad frame, watch the Props interview of Colin Winkelmann right meow and be stoked on the frame you just picked up.

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

7/24/2017 1:16 PM

Spenlard wrote:

Ehh I rode a rather light frame/bike setup for years. Now my bike is quite heavy and oddly I like the feeling quite a bit better. Feels more confidence inspiring throwing it around, and more solid on landings. If you're heavy into park lightness can have it's advantages. I've always been into a light tire/wheel combo on a tank frame kit. Now I have just heavy everywhere and it's not too shabby.

Only goes so far, at a certain point IMO a bike can be too heavy. I mean mid school videos say otherwise, but no way can any of those dudes walk straight today! My bikes probably the heaviest I'd go at 26.5 or so, before this bike my setup had been about 20 lbs. The difference is very noticeable, but for my style it's for the better. Most people wouldn't fancy a 14" rear end, whereas I love it.

I rode in that era (probably at my best honestly) and I can still walk normally, and only crack a little bit when it comes to residual issues from those bikes.

Mine averaged 30-35 lbs for the bulk of the early 00's. Now it is around 22-23 lbs I think.

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

7/24/2017 3:26 PM

dave lawrence wrote:

I rode in that era (probably at my best honestly) and I can still walk normally, and only crack a little bit when it comes to residual issues from those bikes.

Mine averaged 30-35 lbs for the bulk of the early 00's. Now it is around 22-23 lbs I think.

Aha quite impressive. My back and right arm are all whack from riding, and I started in 2009. The bars so low, the geo so bad.. the weight. Man. Had to keep your ass in shape!

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Refs: Future FBM, Warchol2 WtfKennethXp Riversiderider TCbmx Riversiderider JakeSalbert

7/24/2017 7:54 PM

I got a late start to riding (first bmx october '15-thank you student loan money; doing the late in life community college thing, hs class of 08) and that frame was a mutiny comb 21.5 tt about 5.5 pounds which was unnecessarily long but provided good leverage when paired with 10rise FUBARS. I am 6 foot 2 and about 220 pounds.

Next I experimented with an s&m intrikat frame (20.5tt and short sub 13 rear and light at about 4.5 pounds) which was without a doubt a way different feeling ride. Did my first opposite feeble to easy 180 with it the first day I tried them, and my first feeble to smith as this setup was very responsive and easy to move around...to the point where the development of my technique was suffering as the tiny bike enabled me to brute it around rather than work cohesively man and machine to maneuver the way visualized/simulated/daydreamed. There was also a bit of flex when loading to hop and landing but that makes sense as it is a "flatland street" frame and I've got weight and don't have smoothness down quite yet.

Sold those frames and have been riding a modern standard STA. 21tt with the back wheel at about 13.8, weighing in at probably 6.5 pounds which is about as heavy of a modern frame as you can get. I'm loving my setup now and feel like the extra weight of the frame mantains momentum...it feels rock solid stable and compells me to bump and pop every crack and curb using it's confidence inducing girthy density and I also feel safe and secure when latching onto grinds at speed as I feel as long as I line my boat up reasonably enough my sturdy rig will cut across rough waters and I will make it out alive, whereas a lighter more nimble vessel could potentially explode upon contact.

Most people that ride my bike do no like it though, default comment is that it's too heavy (about 29 lbs all decked out in street clothes).

Point is that the type of frame (geo to a much greater extent but weight factors too) will influence the way you ride and the things you do but you need to mess around with your setup until you know what you like which will be optimized for how you ride which will be based more or less on what is within your ability/what you have a natural inclination to blended with the rider you're working towards/desire to be.

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account here is less about my and more about bike

7/24/2017 8:05 PM

Ive been riding bmx close to 25 years over the years bikes have gone from heavy bulky solid frames.. to ultra light and durable... yes this has alot to do with forging of a frame and whatever kind of steel or aluminum is being used or even a mix of the two...

I myself weigh close to 250.. I stand 6 foot even... I need a heavy bike to be able to put up with punishment I put it through just being a big guy... I have snapped powerlite frames back in the day right at the neck.. I snapped a couple dynos years ago... one thing I always look for isnt so much the weight of the bike but rather how its built... ie the triangulation of the frame... also with us bigger guyz we need bigger tires to properly distribute weight when we land I just snapped the belts in my old tires doing a jhop over a curb... stupid simple thing to do didnt think id be wearing road rash for a week from a shit tire.... either way it comes down to preference.. what do you want to do with this bike jump big dirt gaps out in the country or street ride with the boys all depends on the application...

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7/25/2017 5:18 AM

Hey guys want to hear a joke.... the ti eastern grim reaper frame.

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7/27/2017 1:12 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/27/2017 1:14 AM

Bmx-95 wrote:

Hey guys want to hear a joke.... the ti eastern grim reaper frame.

2000$ + in CAD

Edit : 2364$ base price not including anything additional or shipping .

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Instagram : braydenbuckingham
My Cult 2 Short

7/27/2017 11:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/27/2017 11:11 AM

Bmx-95 wrote:

Hey guys want to hear a joke.... the ti eastern grim reaper frame.

I like that AFTER Lairdframe released their Ti option Eastern brought it back with the same details Laird mentioned with his own...thicker tubing etc. Seems like they are copying his work to an extent.

But honestly, Ti and Carbon frames COULD have a place in freestyle. It would be a niche option, but I could see carbon frames in trails or pegless park easily because they handle downhill MTB when the carbon lay up is done correctly. Impacts are carbons really only downfall. Ti would work well in that application, as well as flatland.

To Brad Thumper-who snapped Dynos etc-Dyno was the more entry level/budget version of GT, and typically not high end at all-so that is a lot less surprising to me. I honestly don't believe Dyno offered a Chromoly frame-theirs from my experience were all high tensile steel. Also aluminum and Chromoly cannot be mixed into a material together-their melting points are too different.

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

7/27/2017 12:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/27/2017 12:03 PM

Bmx-95 wrote:

Hey guys want to hear a joke.... the ti eastern grim reaper frame.

dave lawrence wrote:

I like that AFTER Lairdframe released their Ti option Eastern brought it back with the same details Laird mentioned with his own...thicker tubing etc. Seems like they are copying his work to an extent.

But honestly, Ti and Carbon frames COULD have a place in freestyle. It would be a niche option, but I could see carbon frames in trails or pegless park easily because they handle downhill MTB when the carbon lay up is done correctly. Impacts are carbons really only downfall. Ti would work well in that application, as well as flatland.

To Brad Thumper-who snapped Dynos etc-Dyno was the more entry level/budget version of GT, and typically not high end at all-so that is a lot less surprising to me. I honestly don't believe Dyno offered a Chromoly frame-theirs from my experience were all high tensile steel. Also aluminum and Chromoly cannot be mixed into a material together-their melting points are too different.

Honestly if your going to buy a Ti Frame spend the extra money and buy from mike. He treats his customers extremely well, you can spec the frame how you want it AND it's going to be more reliable. I know there's a couple of park and trails riders that do run ti frames but personally I wouldn't want to run one while riding street.

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7/27/2017 12:49 PM

Bmx-95 wrote:

Honestly if your going to buy a Ti Frame spend the extra money and buy from mike. He treats his customers extremely well, you can spec the frame how you want it AND it's going to be more reliable. I know there's a couple of park and trails riders that do run ti frames but personally I wouldn't want to run one while riding street.

Agreed, if I had the cash I would probably get a Chromo one from laird and then the rest would go into other parts for a full setup.

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

7/27/2017 1:12 PM

I wouldn't want ti or carbon. Ti is silly money, and the only advantage is weight saving. But it's not like bikes are particularly heavy now anyway. And carbon just seems like a bad idea. It can be ridiculously strong, so works perfectly in a lot of applications. But the amount of different stresses in bmx just makes it seem a bit over the top. You could potentially have a carbon frame that could last a lifetime, but you'd have to limit what you do on it to prevent the risks of damaging it to an irreparable state.

Steel is real and all that.

Even GT's in the later half of the 90's were very questionable. That 4130 Chromoly sticker on the seat tube literally meant the seat tube was chromoly, and the rest of the tubes were Hi ten. Shitty thing to do, but by not advertising the frames as being 100% chromoly they technically weren't doing anything wrong (this was on the mid level bikes, like the performer)

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7/27/2017 5:53 PM

eskimojay wrote:

Dk S.O.B. That frame is legendary Colin winkleman was the man

Damn that brings back memories. Colin was the man and a buddy of mine rode that frame. Still can't believe I rode one of these back in the day. Heavy sum bitch!!

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