Hub stuff.

Switch drive is taking over

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

...more

I like it. Makes it easier to sell when youre done with it.

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

I like it. Makes it easier to sell when youre done with it.

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

I like it. Makes it easier to sell when youre done with it.

...more

Makes everything easier, selling, buying,trading, testing if the other side is more appropriate for a riders style.

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

I like it. Makes it easier to sell when youre done with it.

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

I like it. Makes it easier to sell when youre done with it.

...more

tomdon wrote:

Makes everything easier, selling, buying,trading, testing if the other side is more appropriate for a riders style.

tomdon wrote:

Makes everything easier, selling, buying,trading, testing if the other side is more appropriate for a riders style.

...more

Didn't some people used to say the multi-directional design was a piece of shit? Lol

I've had my hub forever and it's been great so i just assumed it was another thing against innovation.

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

tomdon wrote:

Switch drive is taking over

...more

Saves costs in manufacturing too, maybe we will see the prices start to drop on parts soon. (Sarcasm)

I have a first gen Eclat Pulse with the SDS system, and when it wore out, i bought bearings from Brefasco for like 10 bucks and a new driver from my lbs for like 40. runs like brand new and its years old and covered in grind marks

GSport/Odyssey has had a RHD/LHD system for awhile. This sds thing from Eclat seems like its reinventing the wheel. I don't understand what's so great about it.

Basement Cat wrote:

GSport/Odyssey has had a RHD/LHD system for awhile. This sds thing from Eclat seems like its reinventing the wheel. I don't ...more

Basement Cat wrote:

GSport/Odyssey has had a RHD/LHD system for awhile. This sds thing from Eclat seems like its reinventing the wheel. I don't understand what's so great about it.

...more

So has Eastern, and before that the Madera Dexter cassette hub (Not the Pilot/V2 hubs) which no one seems to remember.

The SDS thing is neat but I just don't like how you have to remove the ratchet ring itself. Seems to me there's more parts that could fail there, but I could be wrong. From what I understand, there's a locking clip that you have to remove with pliers or something (can kinda see it here) and then you can pull the ratchet ring out and flip it. You can see how it's held in there in this pic kinda.

I just wonder if the way the prongs mount into the hub could wear out and create a problem where it moves around or something, idk probably not though.



It's a neat design for sure though, makes it A LOT easier when shopping for hubs especially used ones and you need LHD. Not to mention companies that do this won't have to make X amount of RHD hubs, and X amount of LHD hubs.. Not really a huge issue there but yeah. Also would help if someone starts out riding then wants to learn how to grind, and ends up needing to flip his drive train. Won't have to buy a whole new hub for that.


EDIT- fixed links because I'm an idiot and formatted them wrong.

sundaybmxRR yeah, the ring is the fatal design flaw. mine shattered a year into riding the hub and i had to replace it along with the new driver. the appeal i see in SDS is that the parts work on so many hubs that almost any shop can order parts for it.

Velo/Raptor wrote:

sundaybmxRR yeah, the ring is the fatal design flaw. mine shattered a year into riding the hub and i had to replace it along ...more

Velo/Raptor wrote:

sundaybmxRR yeah, the ring is the fatal design flaw. mine shattered a year into riding the hub and i had to replace it along with the new driver. the appeal i see in SDS is that the parts work on so many hubs that almost any shop can order parts for it.

...more

damn really? Guess that confirms my speculation. Do you have any pics of it by chance? I just wanna see where it broke out of curiousity haha

But that's true too, at least replacement parts would be easy to come by instead of every single company doing their own sds style thing

sundaybmxRR wrote:

So has Eastern, and before that the Madera Dexter cassette hub (Not the Pilot/V2 hubs) which no one seems to remember.

The ...more

sundaybmxRR wrote:

So has Eastern, and before that the Madera Dexter cassette hub (Not the Pilot/V2 hubs) which no one seems to remember.

The SDS thing is neat but I just don't like how you have to remove the ratchet ring itself. Seems to me there's more parts that could fail there, but I could be wrong. From what I understand, there's a locking clip that you have to remove with pliers or something (can kinda see it here) and then you can pull the ratchet ring out and flip it. You can see how it's held in there in this pic kinda.

I just wonder if the way the prongs mount into the hub could wear out and create a problem where it moves around or something, idk probably not though.



It's a neat design for sure though, makes it A LOT easier when shopping for hubs especially used ones and you need LHD. Not to mention companies that do this won't have to make X amount of RHD hubs, and X amount of LHD hubs.. Not really a huge issue there but yeah. Also would help if someone starts out riding then wants to learn how to grind, and ends up needing to flip his drive train. Won't have to buy a whole new hub for that.


EDIT- fixed links because I'm an idiot and formatted them wrong.

...more

Yep, this also means the hub will be less efficient. More power is lost because of the relatively loose fit of the ratchet ring.

Basement Cat wrote:

GSport/Odyssey has had a RHD/LHD system for awhile. This sds thing from Eclat seems like its reinventing the wheel. I don't ...more

Basement Cat wrote:

GSport/Odyssey has had a RHD/LHD system for awhile. This sds thing from Eclat seems like its reinventing the wheel. I don't understand what's so great about it.

...more

sundaybmxRR wrote:

So has Eastern, and before that the Madera Dexter cassette hub (Not the Pilot/V2 hubs) which no one seems to remember.

The ...more

sundaybmxRR wrote:

So has Eastern, and before that the Madera Dexter cassette hub (Not the Pilot/V2 hubs) which no one seems to remember.

The SDS thing is neat but I just don't like how you have to remove the ratchet ring itself. Seems to me there's more parts that could fail there, but I could be wrong. From what I understand, there's a locking clip that you have to remove with pliers or something (can kinda see it here) and then you can pull the ratchet ring out and flip it. You can see how it's held in there in this pic kinda.

I just wonder if the way the prongs mount into the hub could wear out and create a problem where it moves around or something, idk probably not though.



It's a neat design for sure though, makes it A LOT easier when shopping for hubs especially used ones and you need LHD. Not to mention companies that do this won't have to make X amount of RHD hubs, and X amount of LHD hubs.. Not really a huge issue there but yeah. Also would help if someone starts out riding then wants to learn how to grind, and ends up needing to flip his drive train. Won't have to buy a whole new hub for that.


EDIT- fixed links because I'm an idiot and formatted them wrong.

...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Yep, this also means the hub will be less efficient. More power is lost because of the relatively loose fit of the ratchet ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Yep, this also means the hub will be less efficient. More power is lost because of the relatively loose fit of the ratchet ring.

...more

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 degree of crank rotation TOPS.

The old version of the sds was shit, i had the ratchet ring shatter 2or 3 times. Was because of the outer shape, pressure built in the corners then boom

bobPA wrote:

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 ...more

bobPA wrote:

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 degree of crank rotation TOPS.

...more

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's less efficient and more fragile. The ease of use for riders and shops is cancelled out by the fragility.

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's less efficient and more fragile. The ease of use for riders and shops is cancelled out by the fragility.

...more

I dont think i ever rode my pulse and thought 'damn, i wish this this used the energy i applied to it more efficiently'. ....although it is kinda annoying having your hub turn into a fixie mid sesh, so theres that haha

EddiMundo wrote:

The old version of the sds was shit, i had the ratchet ring shatter 2or 3 times. Was because of the outer shape, pressure ...more

EddiMundo wrote:

The old version of the sds was shit, i had the ratchet ring shatter 2or 3 times. Was because of the outer shape, pressure built in the corners then boom

...more

this. this is what happened to mine. on the plus side the unique shape of the ring and the c-clip holding it in mean that the hub still works- the pieces of the shattered ring are held in place and don't move around unless you remove the c-clip. i couldnt switch between left and right drive in that state, but it rode ok as long as i didnt touch it.

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Yep, this also means the hub will be less efficient. More power is lost because of the relatively loose fit of the ratchet ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Yep, this also means the hub will be less efficient. More power is lost because of the relatively loose fit of the ratchet ring.

...more

bobPA wrote:

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 ...more

bobPA wrote:

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 degree of crank rotation TOPS.

...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's less efficient and more fragile. The ease of use for riders and shops is cancelled out by the fragility.

...more

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

...more

I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that it's a flawed system. Even then, my Tree is still more efficient. Of course no one is going to notice such a small difference, but why not go for the best? Topsey called me "negative" in his essay because I want the best parts possible.

EddiMundo wrote:

The old version of the sds was shit, i had the ratchet ring shatter 2or 3 times. Was because of the outer shape, pressure ...more

EddiMundo wrote:

The old version of the sds was shit, i had the ratchet ring shatter 2or 3 times. Was because of the outer shape, pressure built in the corners then boom

...more

Velo/Raptor wrote:

this. this is what happened to mine. on the plus side the unique shape of the ring and the c-clip holding it in mean that the ...more

Velo/Raptor wrote:

this. this is what happened to mine. on the plus side the unique shape of the ring and the c-clip holding it in mean that the hub still works- the pieces of the shattered ring are held in place and don't move around unless you remove the c-clip. i couldnt switch between left and right drive in that state, but it rode ok as long as i didnt touch it.

...more

Mine was ok once, one time it jammed up though

bobPA wrote:

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 ...more

bobPA wrote:

The amount of energy lost from a "loose" fitting ratchet ring would be completely irrelevant. You could lose what? Maybe 1 degree of crank rotation TOPS.

...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's less efficient and more fragile. The ease of use for riders and shops is cancelled out by the fragility.

...more

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

...more

Does chris king even make a 9t cassette?

Xxohioanxx wrote:

I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that it's a flawed system. Even then, my Tree is still more efficient. Of course no one is ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that it's a flawed system. Even then, my Tree is still more efficient. Of course no one is going to notice such a small difference, but why not go for the best? Topsey called me "negative" in his essay because I want the best parts possible.

...more

Your tree is not more efficient. I had one and they have the same engagement ring/driver setup as most hubs on the market. Which is I believe only 24 points of engagement. Here is an example of how irrelevant a loose engagement ring would be.

For simplicity we will say that your tree hub has 36 points of engagement (which it does not). That means, every click of the driver is equal to 10° of driver/wheel rotation. I will use 27/9 gearing for simplicity because it is a 3:1 ratio. This means the cranks turn 1/3 the amount of the driver. One click = 10° x (1/3) rotation which equals 3.3333°. So with one driver click the cranks turn 3.333333°. If we use 175mm cranks that will give us a crank circle circumference of C=2Pi175mm = 1099.55mm or 43.29" we will just call it 43" for fun. So this leaves us with the proportion 3.33°/360°=x/43" with x being the arc length, or distance, the crank arm moves for every click of the driver. Solving the proportion yields 0.39775" so 0.4" for simplicity....aka not even a half inch. Now if the driver ring is loose, it will in no way have the same amount of rotation from a single driver click. It would add what another 0.01" or one hundredth of an inch so about the thickness of 4 pieces of paper...which I am sure the sole of your shoe flexes more than that.

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's less efficient and more fragile. The ease of use for riders and shops is cancelled out by the fragility.

...more

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

...more

biggybuggy wrote:

Does chris king even make a 9t cassette?

biggybuggy wrote:

Does chris king even make a 9t cassette?

...more

11t or 12t is the lowest they go I believe

bobPA that was some scary math. i can't even hold a calculator without getting cold sweats and nausea.

for real tho, you make a good point. the loss of efficiency between my buddy's profile Elites and my Eclat hubs are minimal. he regrets daily spending the extra money. even with replacing the ring and driver a few years back, its still cost me much less than his hub set and still rides fine.

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that it's a flawed system. Even then, my Tree is still more efficient. Of course no one is ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that it's a flawed system. Even then, my Tree is still more efficient. Of course no one is going to notice such a small difference, but why not go for the best? Topsey called me "negative" in his essay because I want the best parts possible.

...more

bobPA wrote:

Your tree is not more efficient. I had one and they have the same engagement ring/driver setup as most hubs on the market. ...more

bobPA wrote:

Your tree is not more efficient. I had one and they have the same engagement ring/driver setup as most hubs on the market. Which is I believe only 24 points of engagement. Here is an example of how irrelevant a loose engagement ring would be.

For simplicity we will say that your tree hub has 36 points of engagement (which it does not). That means, every click of the driver is equal to 10° of driver/wheel rotation. I will use 27/9 gearing for simplicity because it is a 3:1 ratio. This means the cranks turn 1/3 the amount of the driver. One click = 10° x (1/3) rotation which equals 3.3333°. So with one driver click the cranks turn 3.333333°. If we use 175mm cranks that will give us a crank circle circumference of C=2Pi175mm = 1099.55mm or 43.29" we will just call it 43" for fun. So this leaves us with the proportion 3.33°/360°=x/43" with x being the arc length, or distance, the crank arm moves for every click of the driver. Solving the proportion yields 0.39775" so 0.4" for simplicity....aka not even a half inch. Now if the driver ring is loose, it will in no way have the same amount of rotation from a single driver click. It would add what another 0.01" or one hundredth of an inch so about the thickness of 4 pieces of paper...which I am sure the sole of your shoe flexes more than that.

...more

I find that the engagement of a cassette is either kinda slacky or kinda profile-y. Like real quick engagement or less quick.

Let's be real here, as long as it doesn't CONSTANTLY slip, rolls fast, and doesn't make a shitty sound, it's fine. I have found that press fit is nice to have, and the less i need to work on it, the better.

another thing is bearings, and as long as they have good bearings that don't break, i don't care.

We can all agree that 14mm true female is better, but I even ride the little 14mm stubs with the 3/8s axle bolts and still grind on them fine, it does not matter that much honestly. As long as you don't have crappy bolts, they actually don't break. Plus i'm not big into grinding or anything anymore.

MaximusBikes wrote:

I find that the engagement of a cassette is either kinda slacky or kinda profile-y. Like real quick engagement or less quick.
...more

MaximusBikes wrote:

I find that the engagement of a cassette is either kinda slacky or kinda profile-y. Like real quick engagement or less quick.

Let's be real here, as long as it doesn't CONSTANTLY slip, rolls fast, and doesn't make a shitty sound, it's fine. I have found that press fit is nice to have, and the less i need to work on it, the better.

another thing is bearings, and as long as they have good bearings that don't break, i don't care.

We can all agree that 14mm true female is better, but I even ride the little 14mm stubs with the 3/8s axle bolts and still grind on them fine, it does not matter that much honestly. As long as you don't have crappy bolts, they actually don't break. Plus i'm not big into grinding or anything anymore.

...more

Not trying to be a dick, but if youre not into doing grinds much anymore, then whether youre fine with 3/8ths or not, it doesnt really matter because for someone who does grind, 3/8ths will probably break. But rest of the comment is ok, cant remember what you said but yeah. Just that i wanted to say.

EddiMundo wrote:

Not trying to be a dick, but if youre not into doing grinds much anymore, then whether youre fine with 3/8ths or not, it ...more

EddiMundo wrote:

Not trying to be a dick, but if youre not into doing grinds much anymore, then whether youre fine with 3/8ths or not, it doesnt really matter because for someone who does grind, 3/8ths will probably break. But rest of the comment is ok, cant remember what you said but yeah. Just that i wanted to say.

...more

It's not that i don't grind, it's not a constant thing like it used to be. Like everyday going to the ledges and trying rails. I'm just not doing big drops to double pegs or anything. Mainly just little technical stuff like 180s out of feebles, ice picks, other things. I'm also pretty smooth on pegs, always have been so i never had any trouble.

I have in the past, broken hollow 3/8s female bolts. Which are horrid and worthless. The Gsport ones are fine actually. Only grind variation i land hard on is the 180 to feeble, no way to avoid it for me haha.

But they have held up fine. I do grind, just not constantly like in summer and spring, part of why is because it's been winter and shitty snow is everywhere.

My bad, i wasn't really specific. I would trust these bolts to hold up to most of the stuff I do, and if they do break, i'll probably just get a new rear wheel or something. I have been wanting tree hubs for ages now.

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

It's still less efficient than a normal ratchet ring or G-Sport/Antigram ring. There's no reason to use the SDS system if it's less efficient and more fragile. The ease of use for riders and shops is cancelled out by the fragility.

...more

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

bobPA wrote:

Only if it is loose. If you're so worried about efficiency why don't you have a Chris King or an Elite?

...more

biggybuggy wrote:

Does chris king even make a 9t cassette?

biggybuggy wrote:

Does chris king even make a 9t cassette?

...more

Nope. I asked when I was at Frostbike in 2011. They said it was something they were looking into, but it likely wouldn't take place.

Their internals are a LOT different than what you see for current hubs. Honestly I would say they are a MUCH better design and would be a LOT stronger.