Innovation?

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12/29/2017 4:04 AM

Ik so I was looking at cranks the other day and I stumbled upon these. The company looks like it's trying lots of new things so if these are good I'll be stoked. What do you all think of them? Photo

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Hmmm

12/29/2017 5:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/29/2017 5:17 AM

Really cool idea! I've wanted to try a set for a long time now, just not willing to part with that much money when I already have my Thunderbolts.

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12/29/2017 5:24 AM

So the tube is splined? And is taking all the force of both crank arms? Seems pointless and potentially weaker than a more traditional design. Not only are the crank arms trying to twist in opposite directions, they'll also be trying to bend that tube. I can't see it lasting long without developing a wobble. Obviously the bearings will be taking a great deal of any force going through the axle. But if the arms themselves are that strong, the tube is taking a lot of force too. I just don't see the point

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12/29/2017 5:44 AM

p1p1092 wrote:

Really cool idea! I've wanted to try a set for a long time now, just not willing to part with that much money when I already ...more

I'm also thinking of trying these although I probably won't. For almost the same price e I can get 2peice fit indents which are tried and tested and also 200 grams lighter (which is not an insignificant amount)

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Hmmm

12/29/2017 5:44 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

So the tube is splined? And is taking all the force of both crank arms? Seems pointless and potentially weaker than a more ...more

Hmm, I guess we'll see if that happens if many people start buying them.

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Hmmm

12/29/2017 5:59 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/29/2017 6:01 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

So the tube is splined? And is taking all the force of both crank arms? Seems pointless and potentially weaker than a more ...more

Doesn't seem like the forces wouldd be any different than regular splined to me. I know your old school, and don't like change, but anytime anyone posts any new inovative products, you always, every time, say it's not necessary. I knew what you were going to say before I read your post. If we had it your way I think we would all be on one PC cranks, unsealed bearings, American bottom brackets, standard headsets, no hub guards, with big ass dropouts, dinner plate sprockets. All that stuff worked, until something better came along. Thunderbolt cranks aren't necessary either, do you hate those too? These have been around for over 5 years, so they can't be that bad.

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12/29/2017 6:06 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

So the tube is splined? And is taking all the force of both crank arms? Seems pointless and potentially weaker than a more ...more

ggallin422 wrote:

Doesn't seem like the forces wouldd be any different than regular splined to me. I know your old school, and don't like ...more

I think that it is a possibility they will be bad but as I said time will tell.
Also Steve isn't that old school, he has a modern bike which is modern by choice.

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Hmmm

12/29/2017 6:14 AM

What I don't like about them is that you cannot run a spline drive sprocket...

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12/29/2017 6:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/29/2017 6:41 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

So the tube is splined? And is taking all the force of both crank arms? Seems pointless and potentially weaker than a more ...more

ggallin422 wrote:

Doesn't seem like the forces wouldd be any different than regular splined to me. I know your old school, and don't like ...more

Hahaha. Hypocrite much? I'm not old school. Far from it. Surely you've seen my bike? They probably only made one batch, and they've been around that long because no ones buying them. Thunderbolts are awesome. Odyssey actually put a lot of thought into the interface, and it works. I hated euro bb's when they came out, because I saw people blow them up first hand. Mid bb is one of the best inventions in bmx. But that's all irrelevant, we're discussing a pair of cranks, and I happen to not like them. Get over yourself

Edit just to add. These may be as strong as normal splined cranks. But they're not lighter. This design hasn't bought anything new to the table, which is why it's unnecessary. Thunderbolts have a lifetime warranty, they're strong AND light. So they serve a purpose.

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12/29/2017 8:28 AM

They've been around for a few years, so I don't imagine too many of them have failed significantly if they are still being made.

Keep in mind that the center piece is clamped tightly between your bearings at all times. It is also much larger than the spindle so you could expect it to be more resistant to twisting in that spot.

They seem really well built, but I don't see any advantages to running them over a normal 2-3pc crank set. Imo, it's just more parts to take off during maintenance & it limits you to bolt-drive sprockets.

Someone buy a set and let us know how they dogrin

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12/29/2017 8:37 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

So the tube is splined? And is taking all the force of both crank arms? Seems pointless and potentially weaker than a more ...more

ggallin422 wrote:

Doesn't seem like the forces wouldd be any different than regular splined to me. I know your old school, and don't like ...more

grumpySteve wrote:

Hahaha. Hypocrite much? I'm not old school. Far from it. Surely you've seen my bike? They probably only made one batch, and ...more

I didn't mean old school like that, just that your an older rider and have been around the scene for a while. I've just noticed that your usually not into new, different ideas. when people post stuff up like this, you usually say something like it's unnecessary. I'm not saying these cranks are amazing, or even that it's a good idea. It's just nice to see someone trying something new. It's just hard for companies to try new ideas because people in the BMX scene are very resistant to change. That's what I've noticed anyway. I don't really have a point. That's it.

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12/29/2017 9:54 AM

Mutant is a really suitable name for a brand that makes cranks like that.

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12/29/2017 12:43 PM

ggallin422 wrote:

Doesn't seem like the forces wouldd be any different than regular splined to me. I know your old school, and don't like ...more

grumpySteve wrote:

Hahaha. Hypocrite much? I'm not old school. Far from it. Surely you've seen my bike? They probably only made one batch, and ...more

ggallin422 wrote:

I didn't mean old school like that, just that your an older rider and have been around the scene for a while. I've just ...more

You're such a mong I can't even bother to type a proper reply

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12/29/2017 7:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/29/2017 7:01 PM

I think its cool! Id love to try them out and see if they develop any problems. I love testing stuff! Looks like a solid idea, all the force would be distributed more towards the center of the bottom bracket shell since both crank arms are one peice. With more traditional 3 piece cranks, there is usually overhang and some of the crank arm spline interface isnt being utilized. This Mutiny design makes for less chance of your cranks snapping at the axle portion by the looks of it!

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12/29/2017 8:03 PM

As strange as the idea sounds I wouldn't mind picking up a set if the price is right

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12/29/2017 8:05 PM

Innovation isn't always good, this just seems like a bad idea. I saw them around the time they first came out and my opinion of them hasn't changed.

They're also not the only ones to do this, Campagnolo uses a similar design on their Ultra Torque cranks... who came up with the idea first though, I'm not sure.

Photo

Photo

aaaand they also broke where you'd most expect them to

Photo

seriously, if they broke like this on a road bike, imagine it on bmx



not to mention with more parts there's more to go wrong. accidentally run your cranks loose for a little? gonna wear those splines out. BB shell an oddball width? welp, sorry, looks like you can't ride these cranks cause the spacer thing doesn't fit in there.

I can't think of one thing this crank fixes or makes better. It's overly complicated. Hey while we're at it, let's do the same thing with the steerer tube on your fork! Yeah see, we'll put a splined spacer in the middle of the headtube (we'll only give you 2 size spacer options though, sorry people with longer/shorter headtubes!) and the bottom of the fork will have a shortened steerer tube that goes into the splined tubed, then the top of the steerer tube will actually be attached to the stem then go into the tubed spacer as well. It's innovative you see, because it's different and creates more potential problems than there currently are, while adding no real gain! Patent pending, no one steal this idea or I'll call you a fag online.

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12/29/2017 8:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/29/2017 8:13 PM

sundaybmxRR wrote:

Innovation isn't always good, this just seems like a bad idea. I saw them around the time they first came out and my opinion ...more

Thats a similar design in some ways but splines have way more surface area than the teeth on the examples you showed. I think it could be a good idea, time will tell I suppose.

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12/29/2017 8:59 PM

Bulletpup wrote:

Thats a similar design in some ways but splines have way more surface area than the teeth on the examples you showed. I think ...more

Yeah, that was more just to show that it's been done, or at least the idea.

My main gripe with it is it doesn't solve anything or add anything to make them better. For example, Odyssey Wombolt cranks introduced the wedge interface which solved the problem of splines potentially wearing out and developing a wobble, and at the same time was innovative cause at the time (and even now?) I can't think of any cranks that use a wedge system like that. Eclat did a similar thing that used the spindle as the wedge, but that ultimately failed.


I suppose being innovative doesn't always need to be solving issues/making things better because sure it's different, which is hard to come by in bmx nowadays, and they're at least trying new things... but it's just different to be different.

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12/29/2017 9:03 PM

I’m not against innovation , but I bought Animal Akimbos partially for how simple they are . 3 piece , strong and no funky gimmicks . Easy to maintain and install . The less technical stuff is , the better I find . More pieces = more things to strip and go wrong .

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12/29/2017 9:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/29/2017 9:30 PM

sundaybmxRR wrote:

Innovation isn't always good, this just seems like a bad idea. I saw them around the time they first came out and my opinion ...more

Bulletpup wrote:

Thats a similar design in some ways but splines have way more surface area than the teeth on the examples you showed. I think ...more

sundaybmxRR wrote:

Yeah, that was more just to show that it's been done, or at least the idea.

My main gripe with it is it doesn't solve ...more

I think sometimes, as you mentioned, things come about just for the sake of being different. Thats true. but like with anything, if there is a difference, there are potential pro's and con's that have not been fortunate enough to be instantly blatant to the untrained eye.

Without proof, I would have never believed a hollow tube, within reason, could be stronger (in ways) than a solid bar of steel.

Sometimes the con's outweigh the good, but if something is different, it has strengths that the other does not posses.

I dont fully understand engines but I know a 4 cylinder has benefits that a 6 cylinder does not and vice-versa. More is not always better, less is not always better. A rotary engine has something over a more standard type of engine.

And so on...

Im not saying this will be the upcoming king of the crop when it comes to crank designs but it probably does have some cool underlying awesomeness that we have yet to consider, comprehend or appreciate fully. smile

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12/30/2017 4:30 AM

I think that in BMX the biggest innovation will come with the development of new materials to work with.
You know, like self-healing, ultra light, ultra strong meta materials w00t

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12/30/2017 6:21 AM

am-shaegar wrote:

I think that in BMX the biggest innovation will come with the development of new materials to work with.
You know, like ...more

How bout this... programmable geometry on parts. App on your phone. Works overnight. The materials are nano technology infused. At a molecular level they are able tho shift around on command.

Thats a bit far into the future...i know

But it would be cool!

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12/30/2017 7:09 AM

Bulletpup wrote:

How bout this... programmable geometry on parts. App on your phone. Works overnight. The materials are nano technology ...more

That would be really cool!

But I'm not sure how it would work from the economy aspect laughing
I mean, I'll just buy a bike once and keep it for the rest of your life and pass it on laughing

Society would have to evolve to near utopia .

But if the human race will manage to survive and not destroy the ecosystem, we'll get there eventually!

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12/30/2017 10:19 AM

Bulletpup wrote:

How bout this... programmable geometry on parts. App on your phone. Works overnight. The materials are nano technology ...more

Going to the trails tomorrow, better start morphing my street set up tonight..

*pawls grow inside freecoaster*

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12/30/2017 10:38 AM

am-shaegar wrote:

I think that in BMX the biggest innovation will come with the development of new materials to work with.
You know, like ...more

Bulletpup wrote:

How bout this... programmable geometry on parts. App on your phone. Works overnight. The materials are nano technology ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Going to the trails tomorrow, better start morphing my street set up tonight..

*pawls grow inside freecoaster*

Lol

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