Is shorter or longer TT easier to j-hop? Also, q's on shorter TT v shorter fork-rake

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12/18/2016 5:47 PM

So I just swapped from 21" to 20.5", and when I did that I moved my bars forward in the stem, so that, in the end on the new frame, my grips were still the same relative distance from my seat/drivetrain/rear wheel. I've loved it so far in a lot of ways, I mean I went over my bars a bunch in the bit (because I'd left them in the stem as they'd been on my 21", once I moved them forward it became easier to control than anything i've ridden before) but with them forward I've been better at everything except j-hops, I just cannot get nearly as high and, whether I'm going for height or not, I'm landing terrible (the higher I try to jump, the worse my landings - I always had a tendency to land leaning forwards, so both wheels would hit at ~same time, I've been trying to shift landings to the rear a bit but am having trouble getting used to it), everything else though I'm better at now (grinds, manuals, footjams, any sharp maneuvering, etc)

I achieved this by shortening the wheelbase (by shortening the frame length), while keeping my grips in the same spot, but I cannot help but think now - couldn't I have achieved the same thing by just keeping my 21", and getting a fork with a shorter rake? I wonder about this because, even with the bars forward, the stem is too close and I've nailed it several times this week, as well as I just prefer my 21" frame so I'm starting to consider getting forks with a shorter rake to ride on my 21", my grips would be in the same spot, the front tire would be in the same spot, but I'd have a larger cockpit (I can't 'throw bars' but I could do 9/10 'wheelie barspins' on my 21", it's *very* difficult to get my 27.75" bars past me on this frame!)

Re the j-hop question, like I said I suck at them now but I'm wondering if that's because a slightly-longer frame is easier to 'time' the hop, to really get the front end up perfect before throwing the back up, or if it's just because I'm getting used to it?(I mean, the other part of me thinks the smaller frame/bike should be *easier* to get up in the air, once I get the timing down tight on front/back wheels leaving the ground!)



Any thoughts would be appreciated, I rode 21" for a while but have ridden 20.5" before, I went back to 21" but it felt too long after riding 20.5". I haven't had a chance to try a 20.75" yet (what I imagine is best for me), but the last time I rode 20.5" I didn't have the bars like I do now, they're not 'aesthetic' to me but they're not stupid-forward, they're not as far as Begin's are lol but I always loved keeping in line with my forks wink

(if curious about the bike in question, my username's last posts were in my bike-check thread)

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12/18/2016 6:20 PM

After a good 2-3 weeks you should get used to it. If all else fails you can try a longer reach stem or move up to a 20.75.

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12/19/2016 12:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/19/2016 12:49 AM

It's half an inch, that's only 12.7mm. If anything, the thing that's making hops harder is the angle of your bars. Don't over think it, just ride and you'll get used to it. Once you're used to it, if you don't like it, then go back to the 21"

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12/19/2016 12:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/19/2016 12:59 AM

Top tube doesn't matter at all. Look at your chain stay length. That's what changes the feel.
What's wrong with bunny hop? J's don't hop lol. I never heard of a j hop. It's the same thing right?

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12/19/2016 3:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/19/2016 3:42 AM

Yes, bar far forward too earn room on a small frame nosedive like shit.

I am 6 feet tall and I usually ride a 21.5" (69° st, feels 21.25") and once I retried my old frame for a few days which was the same geo but with a 20.9" tt and it felt horrible, I had the choice of putting the bar a tiny bit forward like I do usually and felt super cramped or put that bar more forward and land nose heavy to any big hop 3 or even on regular high hops like you do right now with your 20.5" frame.

To shorten the wheel base, better to shorten the chainstays and/or get a steep headtube /short fork offset to get over the front end easier (and keep a long top tube)
How tall are you ? as you said maybe 20.75" is maybe the best compromise for you, just keep in mind that how a frame feels is not only defined by top tube lenght.

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12/19/2016 5:18 PM

ThrashNtrash wrote:

After a good 2-3 weeks you should get used to it. If all else fails you can try a longer reach stem or move up to a 20.75.

I dunno what to do now, I hadn't tried barspins yet on this and did today, with the bars forward, and the shorter TT, the grip was in my legs I couldn't do anything (27.75" bars)

Am looking for cheap, short-rake forks now but not having lots of luck, am thinking that's a better way to get the shorter wheelbase without the tiny cockpit (or the larger cockpit due to bars that're forward and basically prohibit barspins)

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12/19/2016 5:23 PM

adfkje wrote:

I dunno what to do now, I hadn't tried barspins yet on this and did today, with the bars forward, and the shorter TT, the grip ...more

I have the same problem with barspins I can't do them due to bars hitting my legs every time (6'4" on a 20.75) If you can't find any forks really the only option left is to go back to 21". I'm about to move up to a 21.25 from my 20.75 for the extra room.

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12/19/2016 5:25 PM

Francky wrote:

Yes, bar far forward too earn room on a small frame nosedive like shit.

I am 6 feet tall and I usually ride a 21.5" (69 st, ...more

Yeah that last paragraph you write is what I've realized - but it requires me getting the parts of this geometry I like by buying both new frame (20.75) and like 25mm (shorter?) forks, and forks are stupid-expensive and frames usually are too, am unsure what I'm gonna do here. Was loving this setup, and because I'm short (barely 5'7") I wasn't having any issues *until* today, when I tried barspins, and jesus my 27.75" bars just won't allow me to spin them when they're breaking parallel to my forks by that much.

I guess I could get short rake forks now and put them on my 21" frame (it's a better frame than the 20.5" anyways, i think, like quality-wise), any reco's on cheap forks with short rakes? Am only familiar with odyssey's offerings and I find the prices absurd

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12/19/2016 5:32 PM

The fit shiv is a 25mm offset and not bad priced https://www.danscomp.com/products/353406/Fit_Shiv_V3_Fork.html

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