Madera Cranks Headache

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11/9/2018 1:25 AM

Bought some used Madera Protocol cranks a few months back, but they still aren't on my bike, because either a) I suck at this BMX maintenance stuff and I'm doing it wrong or b) the cranks are shit and I've been had.

I just cannot get the crank on the spindle, I even bought a brand new profile tool thinking that would solve things.... it didn't (Any one want to buy a brand new Profile crank tool?).

I don't know much about cranks etc, and I assumed these cranks has the GDH spindle, but looking at other cranks online, maybe they don't.

So my cranks look like these ones:






But I'm assuming the GDH look like this:



I know the pictures are terrible, but see how the bolts are different. Can anyone help me at all?

Thanks in advance!


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If I could go a tenth as high as Larry Edgar goes, then I would still be blasting super high.

11/9/2018 4:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/9/2018 4:34 AM

That looks like the old style solid profile axle. Gdh stands gun drilled hole, and they're hollow. So you may have an old profile axle. The bolts are different sizes so they can't be old bolts either n a new axle either. Any madera logo on them or anything? Is it just one arm you can't get on? Is the axle hollow?
They look like madera arms, but could be a generic axle that doesn't quite have the same size splines?
I assume the splines on the axle and arm don't have any damage?

Edit just to add: what size allen key does the sprocket bolt take? Profile/madera are a 3/8ths bolt and take a 7/32 allen key iirc (bloody imperial awkwardness)

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11/9/2018 5:26 AM

What do you mean that you can't get the arm on the spindle? The reason I ask is that they (obviously) are on in the pictures. Are you referring to the bit of spline showing after the one arm is installed? If that is the case, it could be that they are on as far as they will go & you need a spacer or two for frame clearance. If that isn't the case, take a close look at all the splines inside the crank arms and the spindle. Look for any burrs or dings. It's possible that they will need a filing with a small jeweler's file.

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11/9/2018 5:40 AM

I know I've already texted you about this but maybe try and put the arms on each side of the spindle and see if they go on easier on a particular side. With them being 2nd hand it could be that the splines have worn slightly maybe?

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11/9/2018 6:04 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

That looks like the old style solid profile axle. Gdh stands gun drilled hole, and they're hollow. So you may have an old profile axle. The bolts are different sizes so they can't be old bolts either n a new axle either. Any madera logo on them or anything? Is it just one arm you can't get on? Is the axle hollow?
They look like madera arms, but could be a generic axle that doesn't quite have the same size splines?
I assume the splines on the axle and arm don't have any damage?

Edit just to add: what size allen key does the sprocket bolt take? Profile/madera are a 3/8ths bolt and take a 7/32 allen key iirc (bloody imperial awkwardness)

That's what is weird, these don't take an allen key, it's nut like in the first pics.

Can I buy a GDH spindle for them?

To confirm, none of the pics are mine, they are off the net. This an actual pic of the spindle:







Sorry if none of this makes sense but I'm not the most mechanically skilled.

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If I could go a tenth as high as Larry Edgar goes, then I would still be blasting super high.

11/9/2018 6:16 AM

Call Mat at Profile because it’s 1 of 3 things and they will get you set up.
1- The original owner screwed up the splines so they will not ever go on right. Either the splines in the arms or the spindle.
2- Wrong spindle. Why someone would send/keep the right one is a mystery. But, maybe they goofed and kept the wrong one. Might want to contact them (I sure as hell would) because they are great cranks when they are ON the bike.
3- This is hard to do, but seeing I don’t know what you paid it could be the case. I have seen the arm go on at a slight angle due to improper original install. Meaning you have to put the arms on at a slight angle. They will not go on straight. If that’s the problem I would get my money back from the seller. Profile won’t warranty stupidity and it’s not your fault that they don’t know what they are doing.

You can take it to the local shop if you have one that knows BMX. They can get you sorted out. But if it’s a messed up spindle or arm...call Profile. You might have to get another spindle but they are normally good about that stuff and will go 1/2 price. I have known them awhile and many times they will do it for free. Just call and be cool about everything. Play dumb and don’t say your the SECOND owner. Make it seem like you ordered them and this is what you got. They look painted so tell them you planned to paint them and can’t find the shipping information. I know sounds crazy but seeing you have never talked to them it will help. If you know them, they are really easy to deal with.

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11/9/2018 6:28 AM

Use a damn impact wrench. That'll get it on

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I don't crash, I do random gravity checks...

11/9/2018 6:42 AM

Thanks for the advice fellas, I will have another crack as it this weekend. But I think if all else fails, I will get on the blower and see what Profile say.

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If I could go a tenth as high as Larry Edgar goes, then I would still be blasting super high.

11/9/2018 7:30 AM

Yeah, looks like an old profile axle, but finding out what the thread is will determine if it's actually profile or not. Most brands copied profile, so the axle SHOULD still work.

My edit was to do with the sprocket bolt, what size is it?

Try both arms on both sides, you might be able to determine if it's an arm, or one side of the axle that is the issue

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11/9/2018 7:47 AM

They are definitely Maderas, but they must be pre-GDH with the old axle.

No idea what the sprocket bolt size is. The one that goes the through the middle of the sprocket, or the one that bolts to the sprocket on the side of the crank arm?

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If I could go a tenth as high as Larry Edgar goes, then I would still be blasting super high.

11/9/2018 7:53 AM

Aitkenisgod wrote:

They are definitely Maderas, but they must be pre-GDH with the old axle.

No idea what the sprocket bolt size is. The one that goes the through the middle of the sprocket, or the one that bolts to the sprocket on the side of the crank arm?

Maderas would've come with a gdh axle :/

The bolt that holds the sprocket onto the arm.

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11/9/2018 8:00 AM

Aitkenisgod wrote:

They are definitely Maderas, but they must be pre-GDH with the old axle.

No idea what the sprocket bolt size is. The one that goes the through the middle of the sprocket, or the one that bolts to the sprocket on the side of the crank arm?

grumpySteve wrote:

Maderas would've come with a gdh axle :/

The bolt that holds the sprocket onto the arm.

From what I can understand, the Protocol cranks were originally supplied with the old axle and they switched to GDH. Is that not correct?

Ohhh it's exactly the same size as my previous cranks, not sure that helps at all.

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If I could go a tenth as high as Larry Edgar goes, then I would still be blasting super high.

11/9/2018 9:08 AM

The gdh axle has been around for quite a while now, I'm almost certain they came standard on profiles before madera was even a thing. And if the sprocket bolt is metric, I'd assume they're not madera. I'd email profile. If one arm fits the axle, the other should though

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11/9/2018 9:18 AM

That's the old profile axle, and old enough would come with the regular bolts and not allens.

I had a set I got off ebay a decade ago with that setup. MIGHT be protocols.

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

11/9/2018 9:37 AM

I think I found a couple of pictures of protocol cranks with the old axle. However, I'm almost certain protocols were always rhd/lhd cranks. Something isn't adding up to me. If they're protocol cranks, it could also be that the axle is slightly twisted, so the cranks won't line up properly. Could be the reason you can't get em on. If you want you can send em to me and I'll do a thing to see if I can get em working

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