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T1 has gone through quite a few frame builders including fbm, solid maybe standard pretty sure s&m have taken over the next run of frames
S&M makes S&m aswell as fit
FBM makes fbm
Cult was having frames made by fbm and solid, think they have moved to a different frame builder. The os line of parts are made in Taiwan.

The thing is with Taiwanese built frames is they are built to the customers design. Say colony want 1mm thick tubing the Taiwanese factory will use 1mm tubing. But say united get there frames made in the same factory with the same geo but with gussets and better quality tubing the frames will be better/stronger.

Pretty sure the other company's in the list are all Taiwanese made

Other us company's are solid and standard to name a couple

Gump wrote:

T1 has gone through quite a few frame builders including fbm, solid maybe standard pretty sure s&m have taken over the next run of frames
S&M makes S&m aswell as fit
FBM makes fbm
Cult was having frames made by fbm and solid, think they have moved to a different frame builder. The os line of parts are made in Taiwan.

The thing is with Taiwanese built frames is they are built to the customers design. Say colony want 1mm thick tubing the Taiwanese factory will use 1mm tubing. But say united get there frames made in the same factory with the same geo but with gussets and better quality tubing the frames will be better/stronger.

Pretty sure the other company's in the list are all Taiwanese made

Other us company's are solid and standard to name a couple

this. and Fly also makes/made some T1 frames

Like people have said, different Frames will use different tubing, and they will be welded by different people etc so one frame could be shit and another one amazing, yet they are made by the same company. Still, the company that's making it can definitely make a difference.

Colony are Taiwan made
S&M are made in the S&M factory, generally using Supertherm tubing, which is very good.
FBM are made in the FBM factory, and are also made from supertherm.
CULT make the OS and the Butter in Taiwan, but the Bad Boy is FBM made and the Deathrow is Solid made.
BSD makes their Frames in Taiwan. They actually used to make there parts in the UK, but I don't think they made Frames then.
UNITED make their Frames in taiwan
HYPER make their Frames in the USA in-house I believe. They used to be made by Solid
FAILURE make their Frames in taiwan
TOTALBMX make their frames in taiwan
FIT make some of their frames at S&M, which are supertherm. But some are made in taiwan
FLY make their frames in taiwan
FEDERAL make their frames in taiwan
FIEND Not sure
T1 make some of their frames in taiwan, i believe in the same factory as Fly. But the Barcode is FBM built and the SFA is made by S&M
The Set Not sure
WTP make their Frames in taiwan, and some use hydroformed tubing.
Mankind are made in taiwan
MirraCo are made in taiwan
DK are made in taiwan
STOLEN are made in taiwan
Amity are made in taiwan
SUBROSA are made in taiwan.

Fbm makes the take too.

Sticky this!

Now that we all have a good idea of who makes what frame, we can now rule out that....

S&M, FBM, CULT BAD BOY, CULT Deathrow, Maybe BSD, HYPER, FIT, T1, FLY, Some WTP Are the best quality made...

The rest of the company's frames could be good or bad, not knowing the exact location for each companies frame builders, we can't come to a full conclusion of which frames should be avoided... We know Stolen are shit for parts but make some 'OK' frames, my friends sinner lasted a long time and he's rough on bikes... My CULT OS died within a year, bent chainstays...

I know BSD do some special shit to their frames so i don't think they are avoidable, because my frame has tappered tubing, top and bottom guessets, CNC machined headtube with a flush intergrated mounts, all the welds are welded with precision and care...

We need to make a list of frames to rule out completely, I think in my opinion:

Buy colony if you're on a tight timeline to make a bike, or desperate, but never to make a solid build, ruled out.

THUMBS UP TO BUY WITHOUT QUESTION:
Total, Good... Haven't heard anything bad yet, not ruled out.
United, Decent, Haven't heard anything terrible, not ruled out.
Federal, Heard their freecoasters are shitty, but frames are good, not ruled out.
Fly, Should be ok if you're on a tight timeline or desperate, not ruled out.
Hyper, Excellent, seeing though they are made USA, not ruled out.
WTP, I know they have special tubing and compounds to make frames stronger, not ruled out.
FIT, The wi-fi hit strong and everybody believes they are strong, not ruled out.
S&M, very good, but pricey... worth the pricing?
FBM, very good, also pricey, not sure if it's worth the price?
Failure, haven't heard much about them yet, not ruled out.
Subrosa, heard they make sweet frames, haven't heard too bad about them besides some parts, not ruled out.
MirraCo? Not sure about MirraCo, they have a good team so they must not be too shitty...

Undecided:
T1
The Set
Fiend

AVOID:
Amity.
Stolen.
DK.
Mankind.


We need to add more to these lists, I will never buy amity, stolen, dk or mankind... as i know they don't have the best rep... I'm unsure about the set, t1 or fiend, my mate has The Set Blackout frame and it seems weak in the rear, ill let you guys know...

Anybody else like to add to the discussion of company frames to void? Parts aren't that bad to avoid... but frames are a structured component and we all need to know what we should really avoid rather than just being a trend whore

jake-loves-to-ride wrote:

Now that we all have a good idea of who makes what frame, we can now rule out that....

S&M, FBM, CULT BAD BOY, CULT Deathrow, Maybe BSD, HYPER, FIT, T1, FLY, Some WTP Are the best quality made...

The rest of the company's frames could be good or bad, not knowing the exact location for each companies frame builders, we can't come to a full conclusion of which frames should be avoided... We know Stolen are shit for parts but make some 'OK' frames, my friends sinner lasted a long time and he's rough on bikes... My CULT OS died within a year, bent chainstays...

I know BSD do some special shit to their frames so i don't think they are avoidable, because my frame has tappered tubing, top and bottom guessets, CNC machined headtube with a flush intergrated mounts, all the welds are welded with precision and care...

We need to make a list of frames to rule out completely, I think in my opinion:

Buy colony if you're on a tight timeline to make a bike, or desperate, but never to make a solid build, ruled out.

THUMBS UP TO BUY WITHOUT QUESTION:
Total, Good... Haven't heard anything bad yet, not ruled out.
United, Decent, Haven't heard anything terrible, not ruled out.
Federal, Heard their freecoasters are shitty, but frames are good, not ruled out.
Fly, Should be ok if you're on a tight timeline or desperate, not ruled out.
Hyper, Excellent, seeing though they are made USA, not ruled out.
WTP, I know they have special tubing and compounds to make frames stronger, not ruled out.
FIT, The wi-fi hit strong and everybody believes they are strong, not ruled out.
S&M, very good, but pricey... worth the pricing?
FBM, very good, also pricey, not sure if it's worth the price?
Failure, haven't heard much about them yet, not ruled out.
Subrosa, heard they make sweet frames, haven't heard too bad about them besides some parts, not ruled out.
MirraCo? Not sure about MirraCo, they have a good team so they must not be too shitty...

Undecided:
T1
The Set
Fiend

AVOID:
Amity.
Stolen.
DK.
Mankind.


We need to add more to these lists, I will never buy amity, stolen, dk or mankind... as i know they don't have the best rep... I'm unsure about the set, t1 or fiend, my mate has The Set Blackout frame and it seems weak in the rear, ill let you guys know...

Anybody else like to add to the discussion of company frames to void? Parts aren't that bad to avoid... but frames are a structured component and we all need to know what we should really avoid rather than just being a trend whore

Fiend is good well at least better then premium

This is a very good thread.

ImBrayden wrote:

This is a very good thread.

this and very informant i snapped a fit today

Who thinks T1 are undecided? I'm guessing someone who doesn't know bmx.

I would buy a fbm over and s&m any day also

Deff wouldn't have mirraco in the buy list

Gump wrote:

Who thinks T1 are undecided? I'm guessing someone who doesn't know bmx.

I would buy a fbm over and s&m any day also

Deff wouldn't have mirraco in the buy list

And I wouldn't put DK, Stolen, or Mankind in the avoid list. Some of their parts are bad, yes, but some parts are great.

Gump wrote:

Who thinks T1 are undecided? I'm guessing someone who doesn't know bmx.

I would buy a fbm over and s&m any day also

Deff wouldn't have mirraco in the buy list

Xxohioanxx wrote:

And I wouldn't put DK, Stolen, or Mankind in the avoid list. Some of their parts are bad, yes, but some parts are great.

I'm talking more about frames, stolen and dk frames are pretty shitty in my opinion, amity and mankind i avoid by choice, because i don't trust them after shit i've heard.

remember this is an informal thread, for people to help decide on frames.... so we have mirraCo in the decided list of not to buy i guess...

id buy s&m or FBM but they are both pretty pricey.
T1 is undecided to me because they have been pretty silent for a while and a supposedly going out of business or something, that's what i heard anyways.

so warranty would mean nothing after they are gone.

a lot could be preference too don't forget that. like for instant I would never ride an S&M frame unless it was just handed to me new, but I know damn well they have good stuff.

jake-loves-to-ride wrote:

I'm talking more about frames, stolen and dk frames are pretty shitty in my opinion, amity and mankind i avoid by choice, because i don't trust them after shit i've heard.

remember this is an informal thread, for people to help decide on frames.... so we have mirraCo in the decided list of not to buy i guess...

id buy s&m or FBM but they are both pretty pricey.
T1 is undecided to me because they have been pretty silent for a while and a supposedly going out of business or something, that's what i heard anyways.

so warranty would mean nothing after they are gone.

T1 is never going out of business. T1 is legendary and still makes some of the best parts.

T1 will out live all.

US made frames are only really expensive when buying outside of the us. I bought a fbm howler for $650 Australian dollars

fbm or s&m

How is fiend undecided? Garrett built the company with the sole purpose of making strong frames that wouldn't fuck up like his premium. People told him it wouldn't work because kids wouldn't want to buy frames that are 5 lbs but he started the company anyway because he wanted a frame that he could rely on himself. If it's good enough for Garrett it's good enough for anyone on here.

jacobf wrote:

How is fiend undecided? Garrett built the company with the sole purpose of making strong frames that wouldn't fuck up like his premium. People told him it wouldn't work because kids wouldn't want to buy frames that are 5 lbs but he started the company anyway because he wanted a frame that he could rely on himself. If it's good enough for Garrett it's good enough for anyone on here.

because we don't know where they are built and whether they are good or not yet, not many people have them.

jake-loves-to-ride wrote:

because we don't know where they are built and whether they are good or not yet, not many people have them.

Solid makes them

"USA Frame: Made in the USA by Solid. 4130 True Temper Chromoly tubing"

jacobf wrote:

How is fiend undecided? Garrett built the company with the sole purpose of making strong frames that wouldn't fuck up like his premium. People told him it wouldn't work because kids wouldn't want to buy frames that are 5 lbs but he started the company anyway because he wanted a frame that he could rely on himself. If it's good enough for Garrett it's good enough for anyone on here.

jake-loves-to-ride wrote:

because we don't know where they are built and whether they are good or not yet, not many people have them.

somewhat off topic but i got the headset and it spins as good as an fsa

sundaybmxRR wrote:

a lot could be preference too don't forget that. like for instant I would never ride an S&M frame unless it was just handed to me new, but I know damn well they have good stuff.

Whaaaaat why?

sundaybmxRR wrote:

a lot could be preference too don't forget that. like for instant I would never ride an S&M frame unless it was just handed to me new, but I know damn well they have good stuff.

BNC wrote:

Whaaaaat why?

maybe price is a bit much for him?

Sunday should be on this list some of the strongest frames and the best warranty in bmx.

sundaybmxRR wrote:

a lot could be preference too don't forget that. like for instant I would never ride an S&M frame unless it was just handed to me new, but I know damn well they have good stuff.

BNC wrote:

Whaaaaat why?

tomdon wrote:

maybe price is a bit much for him?

Not price, just don't like the warranty and can't see myself riding them. I'm not at all hating on the company cause I know they're strong and all but those 2 factors play a big role for me

I noticed you said Fbm and S&M are pricey companies and if they are worth the price.....

I believe both FBM and S&M are companies that make their parts in the U.S. (or atleast that's what they advertise). Many people don't understand the whole concept of running a business. So everyone complains why the frames are so costly when the materials aren't as costly. Most companies make their products overseas because it's overall cheaper and they can increase their maximum revenue. The problem with this is the integrity of the frame or parts being built. Sure china can use the same materials as companies manufacturing parts in the U.S. but a majority of how a good frame is made relies upon the preparation and the welding done on the frame. Companies send their manufacturing plans over to china to be made and it's just like an assembly line weld here weld there heat treat done. Not to mention their aren't as many laws over in China (some companies hire underaged workers and underpay them) modern day slavery basically. Which makes it easier for companies over here to maximize profits it's business.

In the U.S. you got restrictions and regulations things like workers comp, the amount of hours a worker can work, how a worker should be treated etc. small things like these make a big difference in the building of a frame. They post weld heat treat the frames try to get the best metals they can acquire etc.The worker sits down and welds the top tube and bottom tube with delicacy and makes sure that the area that is going to be welded is properly prepared. They inspect the frames and make sure they didn't miss a spot or any deficiencies in the frame that might compromise it's strength. The paint work on most american frames is beautiful.... you seen the FBM logos?their pretty fucking cool =P

Point being when your buying FBM or S&M frames your paying for the quality. Would you rather get quality over quantity or quantity over quality? Most of the time when you buy American stuff it's good shit... it's expected to last.... In my opinion that's what America is known for.

Although America is losing ground.... China is taking over for those of you who don't know (china controls our economy) we buy most of our shit from them and we are in huge amounts of debt to them... So next time you buy a frame think about it.... Buy American (do research on the company) American companies rip people off too, know what your buying and what your paying for. Most importantly educate yourselves..... People don't educate themselves we let the government run shit and they do what they please.

TLDR: Proves my point of how people let others tell them what to do. Tough luck

BNC wrote:

Whaaaaat why?

tomdon wrote:

maybe price is a bit much for him?

sundaybmxRR wrote:

Not price, just don't like the warranty and can't see myself riding them. I'm not at all hating on the company cause I know they're strong and all but those 2 factors play a big role for me

Not trying to challenge your thoughts or anything so don't take this the wrong way.

If your product is reliable and consists of good quality you don't need that much of a warranty. On the other hand if your product lacks quality you'll need more warranty to keep the people buying your stuff. The guys who own companies like S&M and FBM aren't millionaires they have alot of expenses to deal with and adding more time to their warranty would just add more expenses to their pockets. I'd go half way with them on the warranty but that's just me =P

Warranties attract people to buy things that's one of the major points behind them

jacobf wrote:

How is fiend undecided? Garrett built the company with the sole purpose of making strong frames that wouldn't fuck up like his premium. People told him it wouldn't work because kids wouldn't want to buy frames that are 5 lbs but he started the company anyway because he wanted a frame that he could rely on himself. If it's good enough for Garrett it's good enough for anyone on here.

It's business.... Garrett doesn't know how to weld the frames himself or make bike components so what he does is goes to a company that does know how to make bike components. He tells them you make me bike components I'll sell em and I pay you a percentage of my profits.

Point being Garretts frames aren't his he just stamped his companies name on them. Most companies run it like that which is why they ship their stuff over to china to get quantity over quality.

You ask Garrett about the distribution of forces throughout his frame when he goes to land a 360 and how the upsweep of the bars or the width of the chain stay affects the forces..... You'll get a blank stare (I think). Maybe he does know =P

I'm not dogging on Garrett or his company he's a great rider. Just pointing out the facts..... Although i do think Garret can have success with his company if he deals with the business side of things aptly and gets a good deal he'll do more than alright.

Aav1996 wrote:

I noticed you said Fbm and S&M are pricey companies and if they are worth the price.....

I believe both FBM and S&M are companies that make their parts in the U.S. (or atleast that's what they advertise). Many people don't understand the whole concept of running a business. So everyone complains why the frames are so costly when the materials aren't as costly. Most companies make their products overseas because it's overall cheaper and they can increase their maximum revenue. The problem with this is the integrity of the frame or parts being built. Sure china can use the same materials as companies manufacturing parts in the U.S. but a majority of how a good frame is made relies upon the preparation and the welding done on the frame. Companies send their manufacturing plans over to china to be made and it's just like an assembly line weld here weld there heat treat done. Not to mention their aren't as many laws over in China (some companies hire underaged workers and underpay them) modern day slavery basically. Which makes it easier for companies over here to maximize profits it's business.

In the U.S. you got restrictions and regulations things like workers comp, the amount of hours a worker can work, how a worker should be treated etc. small things like these make a big difference in the building of a frame. They post weld heat treat the frames try to get the best metals they can acquire etc.The worker sits down and welds the top tube and bottom tube with delicacy and makes sure that the area that is going to be welded is properly prepared. They inspect the frames and make sure they didn't miss a spot or any deficiencies in the frame that might compromise it's strength. The paint work on most american frames is beautiful.... you seen the FBM logos?their pretty fucking cool =P

Point being when your buying FBM or S&M frames your paying for the quality. Would you rather get quality over quantity or quantity over quality? Most of the time when you buy American stuff it's good shit... it's expected to last.... In my opinion that's what America is known for.

Although America is losing ground.... China is taking over for those of you who don't know (china controls our economy) we buy most of our shit from them and we are in huge amounts of debt to them... So next time you buy a frame think about it.... Buy American (do research on the company) American companies rip people off too, know what your buying and what your paying for. Most importantly educate yourselves..... People don't educate themselves we let the government run shit and they do what they please.

TLDR: Proves my point of how people let others tell them what to do. Tough luck

In america i would buy the S&M frames, im not a fan of FBM but if i decided to go mass street i would get an fbm, but cause i live in australia, UK & most of europe is free shipping to aus over $100/150Euro's spent overseas, So the frames will be like $10 off shipping and will be dirt cheap, we can buy hangover frames for just $300 in some cases.

But from America, Shipping is like $50 to get from USD to AUD, then the frame is like $380, once you pay for shipping and handling which ends up almost over $100 the frames almost cost close to $600, So i don't really have that kind of money...

I LOVE S&M i love their trademark they leave on bmx, but for me in australia i can't afford that being a full time student and no job.

The T1 SFA here is $550
The SS&M BTM is $550

Then you have
The BSD Beverage for $370
Federal Lacey $350
Fly Tierra $340

It's just a dependence for us in australia, unfortunately, most american made frames are almost $600 or more.


BUT!!
USA Made Cranksets, Bars, Forks, Rims, Hubs... whatever, are affordable, because the weight and sizes are a LOT smaller and less shipping... but yeah, that's why they are pricey "for us" anyway.

jacobf wrote:

How is fiend undecided? Garrett built the company with the sole purpose of making strong frames that wouldn't fuck up like his premium. People told him it wouldn't work because kids wouldn't want to buy frames that are 5 lbs but he started the company anyway because he wanted a frame that he could rely on himself. If it's good enough for Garrett it's good enough for anyone on here.

Aav1996 wrote:

It's business.... Garrett doesn't know how to weld the frames himself or make bike components so what he does is goes to a company that does know how to make bike components. He tells them you make me bike components I'll sell em and I pay you a percentage of my profits.

Point being Garretts frames aren't his he just stamped his companies name on them. Most companies run it like that which is why they ship their stuff over to china to get quantity over quality.

You ask Garrett about the distribution of forces throughout his frame when he goes to land a 360 and how the upsweep of the bars or the width of the chain stay affects the forces..... You'll get a blank stare (I think). Maybe he does know =P

I'm not dogging on Garrett or his company he's a great rider. Just pointing out the facts..... Although i do think Garret can have success with his company if he deals with the business side of things aptly and gets a good deal he'll do more than alright.

That's the point of my thread.. Thank you for understanding ^^

I wish there was australian made frames here, but they only make carbon frames or whatever for racing bikes.

The bmx scene down here isn't very heavy, so you know they probably won't ever do that.

Back to the discussion.


I think fiend is low tier compared to the other companies, and i think cult is more of a rat out to get more money.

They stole primo mix's and called it a match? grow a brain cult!
I want to swap my match shell or a mix shell