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6/28/2017 12:03 PM

HA...GOT'EM.
So I'm doing another build and I narrowed it down to these three frames. S&M Daggher, WTP Message, and The Volume Vessel. I really love the SM Dagger but I really never rode a low profile frame before. The Message is in between with slightly higher seat post and the volume is normal size. The vessel was my first choice and I was going to get it last year bet ended up ordering a complete WTP Volta instead. I love the hydro headtube and the overall build of it. Plus I've had volumes in the past that I quite enjoyed. The Message is almost similar to the Volta I had, which I also like. So if I could get a little insight on low profile frames, that would be helpful.
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6/28/2017 12:18 PM

They'd all be far too responsive for me. The volume would be too tall, and the dagger would be too low. So, if the geometry is what you want, the wtp would be the in betweener. But, there's other s&m frames with similar geometry but taller stand over (tall boy, ufo, even the atf isn't far off). And if you don't use brakes the fbm hardway v2 would also be a good choice. It looks like you haven't really thought about bb height, which has a pretty massive impact on how a bike feels (the wtp is 11.5, which will make it feel a lot more sluggish than the 11.7 on the vessel). There's a lot of frames out there very similar to the 3 you've picked or inbetween them

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6/28/2017 1:01 PM

grumpySteve wrote:

They'd all be far too responsive for me. The volume would be too tall, and the dagger would be too low. So, if the geometry is ...more

You ride a 74-74.5 HT then? I'm looking for something I can toss around with ease. I ride mostly park. I've been riding 21 TT for the last few years and been even thinking about going back to something shorter also.
I am also interested in th Hucker frame. What are you currently riding?

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6/28/2017 1:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2017 1:35 PM

grumpySteve wrote:

They'd all be far too responsive for me. The volume would be too tall, and the dagger would be too low. So, if the geometry is ...more

michael.eckhart wrote:

You ride a 74-74.5 HT then? I'm looking for something I can toss around with ease. I ride mostly park. I've been riding 21 TT ...more

I ride a 74.5 ha, but the chainstays are short for me on those too. I've got a custom fbm with a 21.125tt, 13.365 chainstay and 8.365 standover, and 11.625 bb height. It's like a perfect middle ground of being stable but easy to throw around. It's perfect for me. Before that I had an fbm hardway v1, and it felt far too responsive for me, I just felt like I was going to get thrown off it all the time. The plan when I got that was it would help me as I'm getting old and slow, but it gave me a lot less confidence.

If I was to get an off the shelf frame again it would either be an atf, credence mod or terrible one sfa. But I love the brakelessness of my frame too.

But, the choice for responsive frames now is almost endless, it's the current trend, so every brand is coming out with responsive street frames

Maybe have a look at the fit Benny L? They're massively reduced since he left fit

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6/28/2017 2:00 PM

I'm currently running a Standard Sta-L. I think it's 74.5 TT, 11 5/8 BB and 9" stand over. I ordered it because I had a STA a couple years ago and loved it. But this one feels completely different. I also had a 250L that I like too.
The Dagger had a 11.6 BB. does the seat tube height make any difference really?
75.3 HT shouldn't be to bad either should it.
I know this sound stupid, but I'm really shooting for a gloss black frame too ha ha.

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6/28/2017 2:11 PM

I've got a Radio Nemesis and here are the specs:
21.25"
Cs 13.5" in the middle, 13.3 slammed
Angles: HT: 75.25°, ST: 71°
BB height: 11.75"
Standover: 9.15"
Headtube: cnc machined and heat-treated, int. h/set
Dropouts: 6mm thick, cnc and heat-treated.

I LOVE THIS FRAME.

I came from a Federal Twilight, it was
CS length 13.65″
Head Tube Angle 75.5°
Seat Tube Angle 71°
Standover Height 7.75"
BB Height 11.8"

That bike was pretty easy to toss around, but felt really small right when I got it. It was a bit cramped up front for me coming off a 21 into that frame. The radio is longer and feels WAY more stable to me.

Ultimately, you will get used to whatever you want, and you have a few setups from what I recall, so give it a shot. Worst case you don't like it and can hook a local up with a solid deal.

OR save some cash, come down to Cloud (with enough heads up so I can be off work for it and plan to ride) and you could run it for a session and see what you like about that sizing?

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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

6/28/2017 2:30 PM

It all depends if you like going fast or not really. I feel more confident doing a couple of cranks at things, not real fast, but I can't do anything going slow. So the stability really helps me. A steeper ha is something I'll never try again though!
Bar height has a big impact on how a bike feels as well really. On the hardway I had 9" bars and a 31mm topload. Hated it. The whole bike felt all over the place, like I couldn't control it. Now I've got 8.5" bars and 14mm rise stem and it feels solid on my new frame. I occasionally put the 9" bars with a frontload on (because fbm bars, s&m stem, and brand whore). The height difference is a little noticeable (about 1/4") but doesn't bother me, but I swear the taller bars make my bike feel more cramped. I really liked the 8.5 bars with the frontload, but being 6' tall, it was a bit too low for general riding.
I've also noticed taller bars make it easier to pedal (more leverage when cranking I guess?) so with the taller set up, 28t sprocket feels good, but the lower set up it feels a touch on the high side. I want to play around with a 27t sprocket again but don't have one

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6/28/2017 3:38 PM

I love s&m but out of those I'd go with the volume. I really liked my mystery machine. It was solid. Just traded it for a fit hawk though. They feel real similar anyway. I'd also recommend the fbm hard way, but maybe the head tube is too steep for you?

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6/30/2017 8:50 PM

dave lawrence wrote:

I've got a Radio Nemesis and here are the specs:
21.25"
Cs 13.5" in the middle, 13.3 slammed
Angles: HT: 75.25, ST: 71
BB ...more

Federal twilight seems really compact. That's a high BB for such a low profiled frame.
Sounds similar to the S&M Dagger but the Dagger is slightly more spread out with a 75.3 HT and 11.5 BB.
I really do like the BTM also but it's on back order till July 17. I'm kind of a Dans fanboy lol.

Currently im really leaning towards the WTP Message because of its inbetween specs and not to mention cheaper price tag at the moment.

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6/30/2017 11:51 PM

The WTP message in that silver colour looks sick . I think it'll be the best choice out of them all.

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Instagram : braydenbuckingham
My Cult 2 Short

7/1/2017 9:31 AM

Brayden_Buckingham wrote:

The WTP message in that silver colour looks sick . I think it'll be the best choice out of them all.

I agree on the silver. But this build is strictly black this time. I'm also kind of a dans comp fan boy and all they have is 20.6 message frames right now.

But if I do end up buying elsewhere I would most likely get the S&M BTM frame. On dans they are on back order till July 20th

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7/1/2017 3:22 PM

Yeah man get a btm. A little short in the rear for my taste, but if that's what your looking for, it's a very solid, proven frame.

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