Opinions on parts

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5/22/2019 3:45 AM

What are your opinions about these parts
BSD passenger bars
Cult shorty frame

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5/22/2019 4:10 AM

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

What are your opinions about these parts
BSD passenger bars
Cult shorty frame

That is good stuff.

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5/22/2019 4:29 AM

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

What are your opinions about these parts
BSD passenger bars
Cult shorty frame

Many times, parts are parts. If the frame is made of quality materials & the company has a good reputation, chances are it'll be fine. Then, all you need to answer is what geometry is best for you? BSD & Cult both have solid reputations.

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5/22/2019 4:37 AM

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

What are your opinions about these parts
BSD passenger bars
Cult shorty frame

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Many times, parts are parts. If the frame is made of quality materials & the company has a good reputation, chances are it'll be fine. Then, all you need to answer is what geometry is best for you? BSD & Cult both have solid reputations.

Yeah I havent gotten really into GEO yet. But the passenger bars are OK. for me i've ridden them before and they felt good. But I seriously do not know how much the geo of a frame can impact my overall feeling of the bike. Can you maybe explain the geo? I mostly ride street and sometimes maybe I''ll ride some trails.

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5/22/2019 6:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2019 11:24 AM

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

What are your opinions about these parts
BSD passenger bars
Cult shorty frame

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Many times, parts are parts. If the frame is made of quality materials & the company has a good reputation, chances are it'll be fine. Then, all you need to answer is what geometry is best for you? BSD & Cult both have solid reputations.

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

Yeah I havent gotten really into GEO yet. But the passenger bars are OK. for me i've ridden them before and they felt good. But I seriously do not know how much the geo of a frame can impact my overall feeling of the bike. Can you maybe explain the geo? I mostly ride street and sometimes maybe I''ll ride some trails.

Street and trails geos are completely different. It used to be that you just rode what you had. That can still be the case but today frames are typically made with an intended purpose geometry (i.e. trail use geo, street use geo, etc...). Typically, trail geos are more lax in the headtube (approx. 74 degrees v. 75/75.5 degrees for street) and longer chainstays. This aids in more stability. This is similar for park geo. Street geos tend to be more "twitchy"... or more reactive to input. Their HT angles are usually around 75 degrees and the chainstays are usually shorter. Again, there are people who ride a trails frame on street & a street frame on trails/park. It's all personal preference. But, before you go off & buy a frame, you should do a little research on this subject and make your decision with that info.

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5/22/2019 11:13 AM

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Street and trails geos are completely different. It used to be that you just rode what you had. That can still be the case but today frames are typically made with an intended purpose geometry (i.e. trail use geo, street use geo, etc...). Typically, trail geos are more lax in the headtube (approx. 74 degrees v. 75/75.5 degrees for street) and longer chainstays. This aids in more stability. This is similar for park geo. Street geos tend to be more "twitchy"... or more reactive to input. Their HT angles are usually around 75 degrees and the chainstays are usually shorter. Again, there are people who ride a trails frame on street & a street frame on trails/park. It's all personal preference. But, before you go off & buy a frame, you should do a little research on this subject and make your decision with that info.

this^

Out of the two options tho i'd rather get a trails frame for street, than a street frame for trails.

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Ride everything

5/22/2019 12:18 PM

You could request to ride someones Cult.... Shorty frames seem to rather popular. A short end is going to change you pivot point alot. You will adjust to whatever you ride but; if you can get test drive you can gauge whether or not you like it.

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5/23/2019 6:57 AM

SupaShawn wrote:

You could request to ride someones Cult.... Shorty frames seem to rather popular. A short end is going to change you pivot point alot. You will adjust to whatever you ride but; if you can get test drive you can gauge whether or not you like it.

Yeah thats a thing I am rlike really curious . So my bike when I am on it it feels like sturdy and ?heavy? and I like that! When on the other hand a friend of mine has a fiend frame where it feels cxompletely lightweight when riding and ?fragile?. Can you tell me why or you don't understand what I am talking about ?

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5/23/2019 7:14 AM

SupaShawn wrote:

You could request to ride someones Cult.... Shorty frames seem to rather popular. A short end is going to change you pivot point alot. You will adjust to whatever you ride but; if you can get test drive you can gauge whether or not you like it.

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

Yeah thats a thing I am rlike really curious . So my bike when I am on it it feels like sturdy and ?heavy? and I like that! When on the other hand a friend of mine has a fiend frame where it feels cxompletely lightweight when riding and ?fragile?. Can you tell me why or you don't understand what I am talking about ?

It sounds like mentally you associate sturdy, dependable... etc with weight. Try going off of what the material is. I dont know but it is probably 4130 Chromoly that the frame is made of and Cult seems to have a good reputation and a strong following. I am sure you wont break the frame... then again I am usually wrong once or twice a month so....

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5/23/2019 11:09 AM

SupaShawn wrote:

You could request to ride someones Cult.... Shorty frames seem to rather popular. A short end is going to change you pivot point alot. You will adjust to whatever you ride but; if you can get test drive you can gauge whether or not you like it.

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

Yeah thats a thing I am rlike really curious . So my bike when I am on it it feels like sturdy and ?heavy? and I like that! When on the other hand a friend of mine has a fiend frame where it feels cxompletely lightweight when riding and ?fragile?. Can you tell me why or you don't understand what I am talking about ?

SupaShawn wrote:

It sounds like mentally you associate sturdy, dependable... etc with weight. Try going off of what the material is. I dont know but it is probably 4130 Chromoly that the frame is made of and Cult seems to have a good reputation and a strong following. I am sure you wont break the frame... then again I am usually wrong once or twice a month so....

No it's not like that! My frame actually has chromoly(downtube) while the fiend one does not. Same for another bike a friend of mine has (verde eon <- I get the same feeling of it being too fragile while riding). Maybe I could give you the GEO of my bike and other peoples bikes and maybe you can explain?

My GEO: Top tube : 20.75
Rider area : 22.1
chainstay : 13.2
Front center : 22.7
Seat tube lenght : 9.6
Wheel base : 33.7
Bottom Bracket Height : 12
Fork offset: 12
Head angle : 7.5
Seat angle 71

And the fiend one : 20.5″ top tube
12.75″ chainstay
75.5 degree head tube
71 degree seat tube
I seriously don't want my bike to have that feeling.

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5/23/2019 11:29 AM

The feeling is from geometry. Shorter chainstays make it a lot easier to lift the front end, so it’ll feel like you’ll loop out easier. It it’ll feel lighter to handle. The actual weight is almost irrelevant. It’s about finding the right balance for what you want.

My bike would be a pretty good example. By today’s standards the frame is pretty much trails geometry. I’ve got 9.2” bars with a frontload. And it weighs about 24lbs. To some it’ll feel sluggish and heavy. But I grew up riding midschool bikes, so it still feels fairly easy to throw around for me. But it’s also stable enough so I’m not looping out all the time. It’s about the average weight for a brakeless pegless bike. I tried a light build, and I tried a modern street build, and I didn’t get on with either.

You can adapt and get used to other things, but if something just doesn’t feel right, stick with what you know

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5/24/2019 1:15 AM

.pegless. wrote:

The feeling is from geometry. Shorter chainstays make it a lot easier to lift the front end, so it’ll feel like you’ll loop out easier. It it’ll feel lighter to handle. The actual weight is almost irrelevant. It’s about finding the right balance for what you want.

My bike would be a pretty good example. By today’s standards the frame is pretty much trails geometry. I’ve got 9.2” bars with a frontload. And it weighs about 24lbs. To some it’ll feel sluggish and heavy. But I grew up riding midschool bikes, so it still feels fairly easy to throw around for me. But it’s also stable enough so I’m not looping out all the time. It’s about the average weight for a brakeless pegless bike. I tried a light build, and I tried a modern street build, and I didn’t get on with either.

You can adapt and get used to other things, but if something just doesn’t feel right, stick with what you know

So maybe I should stick 13.2 chainstay ?

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5/24/2019 3:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2019 3:46 AM

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

So maybe I should stick 13.2 chainstay ?

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I’ve found it’s nearly impossible to tell if you like a geometry by trying other people’s bikes because there are some many variables added into the equation with how it is setup that also change the overall feel. I’ve ridden kind of all three spectrums of frame designs. Super duper short rear with 11.8 bb height(Fit Begin Sig frame), a middle of the road 13.25 rear with 11.6 bb height (Whammo frame), and a 13.4 + rear with 11.7bb height(atf). I didn’t take too well to the Begin signature frame simply because I ride 4 pegs and hit my rear foot a lot on the rear peg, but other than the I thought the geo was a lot of fun(I’ll sell it if anyone interested). I honestly feel the geometry of the sm ATF is an incredible do it all design for me. I have zero issues riding street on it then going to ride ramps but when it comes time to toss one bike in the truck to ride I always seem to grab my Whammo.

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5/24/2019 5:28 AM

.pegless. wrote:

The feeling is from geometry. Shorter chainstays make it a lot easier to lift the front end, so it’ll feel like you’ll loop out easier. It it’ll feel lighter to handle. The actual weight is almost irrelevant. It’s about finding the right balance for what you want.

My bike would be a pretty good example. By today’s standards the frame is pretty much trails geometry. I’ve got 9.2” bars with a frontload. And it weighs about 24lbs. To some it’ll feel sluggish and heavy. But I grew up riding midschool bikes, so it still feels fairly easy to throw around for me. But it’s also stable enough so I’m not looping out all the time. It’s about the average weight for a brakeless pegless bike. I tried a light build, and I tried a modern street build, and I didn’t get on with either.

You can adapt and get used to other things, but if something just doesn’t feel right, stick with what you know

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

So maybe I should stick 13.2 chainstay ?

BillyBigRigger wrote:

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I’ve found it’s nearly impossible to tell if you like a geometry by trying other people’s bikes because there are some many variables added into the equation with how it is setup that also change the overall feel. I’ve ridden kind of all three spectrums of frame designs. Super duper short rear with 11.8 bb height(Fit Begin Sig frame), a middle of the road 13.25 rear with 11.6 bb height (Whammo frame), and a 13.4 + rear with 11.7bb height(atf). I didn’t take too well to the Begin signature frame simply because I ride 4 pegs and hit my rear foot a lot on the rear peg, but other than the I thought the geo was a lot of fun(I’ll sell it if anyone interested). I honestly feel the geometry of the sm ATF is an incredible do it all design for me. I have zero issues riding street on it then going to ride ramps but when it comes time to toss one bike in the truck to ride I always seem to grab my Whammo.

It's really confusing and i don't think i'll be able to find a cult shorty frame to try it out. But I am preety sure I try out a doomslayer whats your opinion on that frame?

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5/24/2019 6:15 AM

.pegless. wrote:

The feeling is from geometry. Shorter chainstays make it a lot easier to lift the front end, so it’ll feel like you’ll loop out easier. It it’ll feel lighter to handle. The actual weight is almost irrelevant. It’s about finding the right balance for what you want.

My bike would be a pretty good example. By today’s standards the frame is pretty much trails geometry. I’ve got 9.2” bars with a frontload. And it weighs about 24lbs. To some it’ll feel sluggish and heavy. But I grew up riding midschool bikes, so it still feels fairly easy to throw around for me. But it’s also stable enough so I’m not looping out all the time. It’s about the average weight for a brakeless pegless bike. I tried a light build, and I tried a modern street build, and I didn’t get on with either.

You can adapt and get used to other things, but if something just doesn’t feel right, stick with what you know

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

So maybe I should stick 13.2 chainstay ?

BillyBigRigger wrote:

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I’ve found it’s nearly impossible to tell if you like a geometry by trying other people’s bikes because there are some many variables added into the equation with how it is setup that also change the overall feel. I’ve ridden kind of all three spectrums of frame designs. Super duper short rear with 11.8 bb height(Fit Begin Sig frame), a middle of the road 13.25 rear with 11.6 bb height (Whammo frame), and a 13.4 + rear with 11.7bb height(atf). I didn’t take too well to the Begin signature frame simply because I ride 4 pegs and hit my rear foot a lot on the rear peg, but other than the I thought the geo was a lot of fun(I’ll sell it if anyone interested). I honestly feel the geometry of the sm ATF is an incredible do it all design for me. I have zero issues riding street on it then going to ride ramps but when it comes time to toss one bike in the truck to ride I always seem to grab my Whammo.

Hahaha, you call the whammo middle of the road. I’d hate chainstays that short! I had an fbm hardway and just couldn’t get on with it.
My current frame is almost atf geometry (74.5 head angle instead of 75 on the atf), my next is the same as an atf but with 11.75 bb height.

To the op, it depends entirely on what you want to do on the bike really. Small changes will make the bike feel nicer or worse, but nothing will automatically make you ride better, or help you finally land whatever trick you’re stuck on. However, you’ll never know what you like without trying different things. Get on the second hand market, do some trades and stuff until you can figure out what works for you

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5/24/2019 7:33 AM

I_Dyslexiia_Haave wrote:

So maybe I should stick 13.2 chainstay ?

BillyBigRigger wrote:

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I’ve found it’s nearly impossible to tell if you like a geometry by trying other people’s bikes because there are some many variables added into the equation with how it is setup that also change the overall feel. I’ve ridden kind of all three spectrums of frame designs. Super duper short rear with 11.8 bb height(Fit Begin Sig frame), a middle of the road 13.25 rear with 11.6 bb height (Whammo frame), and a 13.4 + rear with 11.7bb height(atf). I didn’t take too well to the Begin signature frame simply because I ride 4 pegs and hit my rear foot a lot on the rear peg, but other than the I thought the geo was a lot of fun(I’ll sell it if anyone interested). I honestly feel the geometry of the sm ATF is an incredible do it all design for me. I have zero issues riding street on it then going to ride ramps but when it comes time to toss one bike in the truck to ride I always seem to grab my Whammo.

.pegless. wrote:

Hahaha, you call the whammo middle of the road. I’d hate chainstays that short! I had an fbm hardway and just couldn’t get on with it.
My current frame is almost atf geometry (74.5 head angle instead of 75 on the atf), my next is the same as an atf but with 11.75 bb height.

To the op, it depends entirely on what you want to do on the bike really. Small changes will make the bike feel nicer or worse, but nothing will automatically make you ride better, or help you finally land whatever trick you’re stuck on. However, you’ll never know what you like without trying different things. Get on the second hand market, do some trades and stuff until you can figure out what works for you

ATF stays are 13.4, Whammo is 13.3. Not that big a difference but 12.7 is is annoying with 4 pegs and felt kinda odd riding jump boxes or mini ramp.

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5/24/2019 10:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2019 10:01 AM

BillyBigRigger wrote:

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I’ve found it’s nearly impossible to tell if you like a geometry by trying other people’s bikes because there are some many variables added into the equation with how it is setup that also change the overall feel. I’ve ridden kind of all three spectrums of frame designs. Super duper short rear with 11.8 bb height(Fit Begin Sig frame), a middle of the road 13.25 rear with 11.6 bb height (Whammo frame), and a 13.4 + rear with 11.7bb height(atf). I didn’t take too well to the Begin signature frame simply because I ride 4 pegs and hit my rear foot a lot on the rear peg, but other than the I thought the geo was a lot of fun(I’ll sell it if anyone interested). I honestly feel the geometry of the sm ATF is an incredible do it all design for me. I have zero issues riding street on it then going to ride ramps but when it comes time to toss one bike in the truck to ride I always seem to grab my Whammo.

.pegless. wrote:

Hahaha, you call the whammo middle of the road. I’d hate chainstays that short! I had an fbm hardway and just couldn’t get on with it.
My current frame is almost atf geometry (74.5 head angle instead of 75 on the atf), my next is the same as an atf but with 11.75 bb height.

To the op, it depends entirely on what you want to do on the bike really. Small changes will make the bike feel nicer or worse, but nothing will automatically make you ride better, or help you finally land whatever trick you’re stuck on. However, you’ll never know what you like without trying different things. Get on the second hand market, do some trades and stuff until you can figure out what works for you

BillyBigRigger wrote:

ATF stays are 13.4, Whammo is 13.3. Not that big a difference but 12.7 is is annoying with 4 pegs and felt kinda odd riding jump boxes or mini ramp.

Aaaah, your previous post says 13.25 😉
Which isn’t middle of the road. But I guess that’s considered pretty long at the rate things are going.
13.3 and 13.4 are almost identical. You can slam a 25 or 27t with 13.3. But you’d need to add half a link for a 28. And the atf would be at least 13.5 in reality (with a 28t. Add a half link for 25t). My frame is 13.3, but that’s so my wheel can sit at 13.5 and not be a ball ache to get the wheel off.
My hardway was 13.2 and I had my wheel slammed on that. But it also had 11.88 high bb, and 75.5 headangle. I rode it for 9 months then decided to give up on it. My custom was based on a cross between that and my old s&m cam wood v2. And the new custom is atf geometry, but slightly higher bb

Tl;dr: wall of text no one cares about

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