Praising/Ranting on BMX Companies

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10/19/2019 11:14 AM

Bryan91 wrote:

S&M is the only company that has USA made frames, bars, forks and stems in the geo I like, so that's why I continue to buy those parts.

Also, Steve how can you say that S&M doesn't use any better quality materials, or "used" better quality materials in the past? They're currently the only company that uses Vari-Wall THERMLX tubing on all of their frames...

So do standard. And fbm if you pay extra. Laird too iirc.

But to answer your question, I said the material is “better”, but that’s not all that matters is it? Literally every s&m frame I’ve seen in the last 6 years or so had at least one questionable looking weld. A good weld is as (arguably more) important than the material.

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10/19/2019 11:52 AM

Mulletsnax wrote:

I ride a Mafia Hitmain frame and fork. Tons of people are hating them but i decided to order a green fuel and they sent me a free fork. So far they have been great and I love it.

I support company’s who build bikes to my style. Lowe standover. Steep headtube. Helps if they have a shredder on their team.

I don’t ride street and im a park rat so cinema, Merritt etc I don’t buy since it just isn’t my style.

I don’t hate a single company besides cult. Frick them.

NoobBro1 wrote:

Frick them? How old are you 😂

I’m 28. I just don’t cuss.

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10/19/2019 12:45 PM

.pegless. wrote:

So do standard. And fbm if you pay extra. Laird too iirc.

But to answer your question, I said the material is “better”, but that’s not all that matters is it? Literally every s&m frame I’ve seen in the last 6 years or so had at least one questionable looking weld. A good weld is as (arguably more) important than the material.

Ya, but for FBM it's going to cost you about $700 US (for a custom) and if I remember correctly you can only choose TT & DT (unless you pay even more)? For Standard I'm not sure if their current cost includes all of the tubing being ThermalX?

S&M's prices are $370-$410 US (which like Four mentioned is still too much for some people, but I think the ThermalX tubing justifies the extra $50-$90).

We've also discussed on here, before how weld penetration is more of a detriment than "aesthetics". With that said, If I ever got something from S&M that looked unbearable/ questionable, I would be contacting them for a replacement. That's why they have the "30 Day Warranty Against Manufacturer’s Defects" & "1 Year Warranty Against Failure" guaranties.

Don't get me wrong I love FBM, but I'd personally rather pay the same price for an S&M that's closer to the geo I want and uses 100% ThermalX tubing. If it was the other way around I'd buy the FBM (or Standard/ Laird).

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10/19/2019 1:17 PM

Bryan91 wrote:

S&M is the only company that has USA made frames, bars, forks and stems in the geo I like, so that's why I continue to buy those parts.

Also, Steve how can you say that S&M doesn't use any better quality materials, or "used" better quality materials in the past? They're currently the only company that uses Vari-Wall THERMLX tubing on all of their frames...

.pegless. wrote:

So do standard. And fbm if you pay extra. Laird too iirc.

But to answer your question, I said the material is “better”, but that’s not all that matters is it? Literally every s&m frame I’ve seen in the last 6 years or so had at least one questionable looking weld. A good weld is as (arguably more) important than the material.

Bryan91 wrote:

Ya, but for FBM it's going to cost you about $700 US (for a custom) and if I remember correctly you can only choose TT & DT (unless you pay even more)? For Standard I'm not sure if their current cost includes all of the tubing being ThermalX?

S&M's prices are $370-$410 US (which like Four mentioned is still too much for some people, but I think the ThermalX tubing justifies the extra $50-$90).

We've also discussed on here, before how weld penetration is more of a detriment than "aesthetics". With that said, If I ever got something from S&M that looked unbearable/ questionable, I would be contacting them for a replacement. That's why they have the "30 Day Warranty Against Manufacturer’s Defects" & "1 Year Warranty Against Failure" guaranties.

Don't get me wrong I love FBM, but I'd personally rather pay the same price for an S&M that's closer to the geo I want and uses 100% ThermalX tubing. If it was the other way around I'd buy the FBM (or Standard/ Laird).

You’re still missing my point. A frame could be made out of thermlx and have poor welds (I’m not saying s&m’s welds are poor, this is a hypothetical situation), it would probably break quicker than a generic Taiwanese chromoly frame that’s been welded well. I even said the dodgy looking welds could still have good penetration. But I’ve seen enough to put me off wanting to risk buying one, then have the ball ache of sending it back because they look like they’re stuck together with chewing gum.

I still think it’s an image thing more than anything else. I buy fbm stuff because they’re pretty much the only brand I think is cool, with riders I enjoy watching. I also like animal, T1, and relic. S&m don’t flick my switch anymore, but the credence stuff is cool. And I think odyssey/g sport make good parts. But generally, quality wise there’s really not a noticeable difference between brands. Thinking there is is naive, and using that as a reason to buy from a specific brand just seems simple minded.

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10/19/2019 1:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/19/2019 1:57 PM

I completely understand. I just think that a lot of people don't reference the fact that S&M is using ThermalX tubing when discussing frame comparisons. It's not the "be-all and end-all", but it's still worth mentioning, because other brands are charging a lot more for it.

As for S&M's image... I think that's why they still sell, so well. They have so many eras that you can choose to like, or not like. Hoder, Fathead and the Credence guy's are some of my favorite people to watch ride.

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10/19/2019 4:39 PM

Those slime tubes, Pacific Bicycle Company, Magna, Razor, all blow hard...

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10/19/2019 6:28 PM

I’ve written or called several companies with questions or concerns. S&M/Fit, Terrible One, Profile and Odyssey have always been friendly and helpful. I spend money with them because I think they’re cool and they seem to appreciate my business. A few other companies have been a little lacking in customer service or have had a bit of attitude, and I’m less inclined to spend my hard-earned dollars with them. I’m not naming names because maybe they were having a bad day.

Are there quality alternatives to the companies I listed above? Absolutely. But I’ll be very loyal to companies that treat me like I’m somebody even when I’m not.

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10/19/2019 8:11 PM

Mulletsnax wrote:

I ride a Mafia Hitmain frame and fork. Tons of people are hating them but i decided to order a green fuel and they sent me a free fork. So far they have been great and I love it.

I support company’s who build bikes to my style. Lowe standover. Steep headtube. Helps if they have a shredder on their team.

I don’t ride street and im a park rat so cinema, Merritt etc I don’t buy since it just isn’t my style.

I don’t hate a single company besides cult. Frick them.

NoobBro1 wrote:

Frick them? How old are you 😂

Mulletsnax wrote:

I’m 28. I just don’t cuss.

Holy shit that’s gold man that made laugh so much!

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10/19/2019 11:22 PM

No one talking about wethepeople?
As far as i know one of the only brands like odyssey and Sunday to give life time warranty?

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10/20/2019 2:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/20/2019 2:19 AM

Masrius wrote:

No one talking about wethepeople?
As far as i know one of the only brands like odyssey and Sunday to give life time warranty?

WTP’s lifetime warranty isn’t the same as odyssey’s though. As far as I’m aware it’s only against manufacturing defects, whereas the 41 thermal guarantee also covers wear and tear. I could be very wrong, though.

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10/20/2019 4:36 AM

Masrius wrote:

No one talking about wethepeople?
As far as i know one of the only brands like odyssey and Sunday to give life time warranty?

Spongeworthy wrote:

WTP’s lifetime warranty isn’t the same as odyssey’s though. As far as I’m aware it’s only against manufacturing defects, whereas the 41 thermal guarantee also covers wear and tear. I could be very wrong, though.

It appears you are right. Never really looked in to it

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10/20/2019 11:47 AM

never been crazy about subrosa

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10/20/2019 6:02 PM

Bryan91 wrote:

S&M is the only company that has USA made frames, bars, forks and stems in the geo I like, so that's why I continue to buy those parts.

Also, Steve how can you say that S&M doesn't use any better quality materials, or "used" better quality materials in the past? They're currently the only company that uses Vari-Wall THERMLX tubing on all of their frames...

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Material quality doesn't matter when you can't weld worth a shit.

Mike Laird uses vari wall

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brakeless maniac

10/20/2019 6:04 PM

I really like fbm, Lairdframe, eclat, merrit, Odyssey/g-sport madera/profile.

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brakeless maniac

10/21/2019 3:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2019 3:42 AM

I find that specific parts are the best, cherry picked from different brands. I.e. tree makes the best seat, odyssey best cranks, profile best stem, s&m for tires, etc.
There are lots of good experiences ive had (or friends) with frames such as: cult, s&m/fit/credence, fbm, united, lairdframe, sunday, kink and a few more i cant remember.

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I like riding my bike.

10/21/2019 3:24 PM

Joe_Martinez wrote:

Mike Laird uses vari wall

Mike Laird also thinks plate bridges are better than tube bridges or wishbones, his opinion is irrelevant.

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YOU AVIN A LAUGH M8?
┬┴┬┴┤ ( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬┴
The Trailest Bike On Vital

10/21/2019 4:46 PM

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Material quality doesn't matter when you can't weld worth a shit.

Joe_Martinez wrote:

Mike Laird uses vari wall

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Mike Laird also thinks plate bridges are better than tube bridges or wishbones, his opinion is irrelevant.

Mike laird has spent lots of time researching and talking to people about welding. I would say that he knows what hes talkin about

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I like riding my bike.

10/21/2019 5:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2019 5:13 PM

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Material quality doesn't matter when you can't weld worth a shit.

Joe_Martinez wrote:

Mike Laird uses vari wall

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Mike Laird also thinks plate bridges are better than tube bridges or wishbones, his opinion is irrelevant.

I didn't say anything about opinion just said he uses vari wall. I have 2 Lairdframes both are solid. Plan on getting another one. Mike Lairds quality of work is awesome.

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brakeless maniac

10/21/2019 6:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2019 6:27 PM

bmxmanboy wrote:

Mike laird has spent lots of time researching and talking to people about welding. I would say that he knows what hes talkin about

Welding knowledge != engineering knowledge. Plate bridge is literally the worst option for strength and stiffness. It's only beneficial laterally if the plate is wider than a tube bridge, which none of his are. He is for sure the best welder in BMX, but he's too stubborn to make a truly well-engineered frame so his skills are wasted imo.

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YOU AVIN A LAUGH M8?
┬┴┬┴┤ ( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬┴
The Trailest Bike On Vital

10/22/2019 5:05 AM

Bryan91 wrote:

Ya, but for FBM it's going to cost you about $700 US (for a custom) and if I remember correctly you can only choose TT & DT (unless you pay even more)? For Standard I'm not sure if their current cost includes all of the tubing being ThermalX?

S&M's prices are $370-$410 US (which like Four mentioned is still too much for some people, but I think the ThermalX tubing justifies the extra $50-$90).

We've also discussed on here, before how weld penetration is more of a detriment than "aesthetics". With that said, If I ever got something from S&M that looked unbearable/ questionable, I would be contacting them for a replacement. That's why they have the "30 Day Warranty Against Manufacturer’s Defects" & "1 Year Warranty Against Failure" guaranties.

Don't get me wrong I love FBM, but I'd personally rather pay the same price for an S&M that's closer to the geo I want and uses 100% ThermalX tubing. If it was the other way around I'd buy the FBM (or Standard/ Laird).

For the record, you get the Variwall tubing with Laird, AND you get to pick all of the geometry-not just "close to what you want". The only thing he won't do is wishbone stays. All for 450 bucks, not far off what you mentioned S&M costs.

With S&M, from what I recall, you pick a frame that is close, and can tweak it a little. That's all. FBM do more custom than that, and Rick out at Standard from what I see will do whatever you want as well.

I am in the same boat as Steve when it comes to S&M-I respect them as a company who has stood the test of times and they have done, and still do a TON for BMX, but the recent models I have seen in person have welds that were clearly a bit too hot-which puts me off of them. (And this is coming from a guy who went to college for welding-so there is some education and experience behind it).

Nothing against them, I just likely won't purchase one of their products in the future.


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"Hey anybody ever make that mistake like right when you wake up in the morning and you believe in yourself?" -Kyle Kinane

"BIKES!" -Tom Segura

10/22/2019 5:54 AM

MY favorite BMX stuff is the stuff that I like AND I get a screaming deal on.

$$ always is key to me pressing the checkout button.

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10/22/2019 7:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/22/2019 8:06 AM

FBM 👍

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10/22/2019 8:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/22/2019 8:11 AM

Animal, Odyssey, GSport, Sunday, Maxxis, S&M, Daily grind 👍

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