S&M frame

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8/4/2020 12:22 PM

After reading and researching the last couple of months, I have settled on an S&M frame, so many positive things people say about them . Looking at the Holy Diver and the ATF. I’ll be mainly on the street and there’s a cool little set up at the park, I can go too. Any recommendations between the two or maybe a different frame. What’s cool is the company is like 20 minutes away from me.

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8/4/2020 12:41 PM

keen8 wrote:

After reading and researching the last couple of months, I have settled on an S&M frame, so many positive things people say about them . Looking at the Holy Diver and the ATF. I’ll be mainly on the street and there’s a cool little set up at the park, I can go too. Any recommendations between the two or maybe a different frame. What’s cool is the company is like 20 minutes away from me.

Really underrated company with alot of quality parts frames, forks, stems,tires, bars, stems. I love everything I have from them although I haven't bought one of their frames yet...

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8/4/2020 1:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/4/2020 1:20 PM

Those two frames are pretty far apart spec wise... the holy diver is a super short back end with a steep headtube angle. Super twitchy setup. The atf would feel a lot more stable and less responsive than that, but the holy diver would be real unstable feeling unless you’re used to those twitchy setups.

Personally, the btm is all I’d go with for street. It’s somewhere between the atf and holy diver geometry wise. Chainstays are oversized and beefy as hell, the geometry is dialed on it (they nailed it with the short back end/low bb, its responsive as hell but still pretty stable), and it’s also S&M’s best selling frame by a big margin so that speaks for the frame too.
If you go btm, you’ll have to decide between btm and the btm XL, the xl has a higher stand over, no integrated seatpost clamp, and a 5” headtube instead of 4.5 (so if your forks are cut down on a standard 4.5” frame you might not have a long enough steerer). I like the og 4.5” headtubes even though I’m 6’2, I don’t like changes lol they look goofy to me but it’s all good if it’s s&m

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8/4/2020 1:21 PM

The Holy Diver has a 5" tall head tube (meaning you can run less spacers, or get a taller steerer tube fork and run more spacers), .5° steeper HTA, short CS at 12.7"-13" and a 1/2" taller standover height vs. the ATF.

It's the most street orientated frame S&M currently has.

If you run through the below questions you can pretty much narrow down what S&M frame you want:

Do I want a 5" tall head tube?
What head tube angle do I want?
How short, or long do I want the CS?
Do I care about BB height?
Do I care about standover height?

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8/4/2020 1:35 PM

Bryan91 wrote:

The Holy Diver has a 5" tall head tube (meaning you can run less spacers, or get a taller steerer tube fork and run more spacers), .5° steeper HTA, short CS at 12.7"-13" and a 1/2" taller standover height vs. the ATF.

It's the most street orientated frame S&M currently has.

If you run through the below questions you can pretty much narrow down what S&M frame you want:

Do I want a 5" tall head tube?
What head tube angle do I want?
How short, or long do I want the CS?
Do I care about BB height?
Do I care about standover height?

And the Dagger is the park bike with short cs too. ATF stands for all terrain frame so it's less responsive but more stable for dirt jumps and trails...

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8/4/2020 3:12 PM

pnfdog wrote:

And the Dagger is the park bike with short cs too. ATF stands for all terrain frame so it's less responsive but more stable for dirt jumps and trails...

I don't think a lot of people use the Dagger for mainly street riding (unless they are on the shorter side).

Back when the ATF first came out 13.4" CS was actually pretty short/ responsive... lol

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8/4/2020 3:12 PM

jboozer4 wrote:

Those two frames are pretty far apart spec wise... the holy diver is a super short back end with a steep headtube angle. Super twitchy setup. The atf would feel a lot more stable and less responsive than that, but the holy diver would be real unstable feeling unless you’re used to those twitchy setups.

Personally, the btm is all I’d go with for street. It’s somewhere between the atf and holy diver geometry wise. Chainstays are oversized and beefy as hell, the geometry is dialed on it (they nailed it with the short back end/low bb, its responsive as hell but still pretty stable), and it’s also S&M’s best selling frame by a big margin so that speaks for the frame too.
If you go btm, you’ll have to decide between btm and the btm XL, the xl has a higher stand over, no integrated seatpost clamp, and a 5” headtube instead of 4.5 (so if your forks are cut down on a standard 4.5” frame you might not have a long enough steerer). I like the og 4.5” headtubes even though I’m 6’2, I don’t like changes lol they look goofy to me but it’s all good if it’s s&m

Thank you for the info, I’ll check out the BTM👍🏼

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8/4/2020 3:52 PM

S and m is literally one if the worst frame companies out there highly do not recommend them !

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old edit

8/4/2020 4:56 PM

The Dagger is definitely oriented towards transition/park riding, but by no means limited to it. But like the guys said above, the two frames in question are considerably different, so pick your geo wisely.

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Scooter kid trying to ride BMX.
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8/4/2020 5:10 PM

readybmxer wrote:

The Dagger is definitely oriented towards transition/park riding, but by no means limited to it. But like the guys said above, the two frames in question are considerably different, so pick your geo wisely.

Thank you, I’ll keep that in mind.

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8/4/2020 6:50 PM

I love my Holy Diver if that matters 🤷🏼‍♂️

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Noah Farver

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8/4/2020 7:24 PM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

S and m is literally one if the worst frame companies out there highly do not recommend them !

How so?

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8/4/2020 7:29 PM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

S and m is literally one if the worst frame companies out there highly do not recommend them !

BigMeanPunk wrote:

How so?

Don't take the troll bait...

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8/4/2020 8:23 PM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

S and m is literally one if the worst frame companies out there highly do not recommend them !

I agree. Fit is way better. You should spend your money on a fit frame and not support s&m. Look at the WiFi or savage frames 👍🏻

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8/4/2020 8:56 PM

cky199 wrote:

I agree. Fit is way better. You should spend your money on a fit frame and not support s&m. Look at the WiFi or savage frames 👍🏻

TwoGuyIlluminatiEye ^ 👀

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8/5/2020 7:05 AM

OneGuyIlluminatiEye wrote:

S and m is literally one if the worst frame companies out there highly do not recommend them !

cky199 wrote:

I agree. Fit is way better. You should spend your money on a fit frame and not support s&m. Look at the WiFi or savage frames 👍🏻

This is definitely funnier left unexplained

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