So, does anyone still ride anything other than 25/9 gearing and 20"ish top tube?

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11/14/2019 10:05 AM

I know that there are usually reasons why the latest and greatest IS the latest and greatest. Like I get that smaller cogs and sprockets are a good idea for freestyling, doing tricks, and probably dropping in on a ramp. And I bet they're actually stronger cuz they're smaller. Although in motocross those cogs can be pretty big and I'm sure they're strong. Just depends on the quality of manufacture I would imagine.

I also know that things change. And then what is old is new again sometimes. Some trends last and some don't. I'm assuming 25/9 will probably last but it doesn't necessarily make the older stuff useless either. Since people used them that way for a long time. I always find it funny how sometimes people that have the new stuff act like the old stuff was completely useless. Yet people were using them..... Usually there's reason for progress, but you probably get my point.

Anyways..... I see a lot of used stuff for sale on FB marketplace that is much bigger than 25 tooth sprocket. And I think some of it is quality stuff. I'm assuming 25/9 wasn't always the go to.. eh? I have read that racers might use 44/16 too.... I'm not sure how long 25/9 has been around I'm a newb....

I've also heard that people that do more flatland stuff may like shorter top tubes.....

I'm curious if anyone rides a shorter top tube than what is the "norm". And if you do something other than flatland with it, like parks or freestyle. And if anyone still rides with bigger gears.

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11/14/2019 10:14 AM

28 9 is where it’s at.
9t drivers aren’t going anywhere any time soon though. Anything smaller and chains will have to be completely redesigned. And I’d doesn’t leave much room for the internals. Even 9t is pushing it.
Freewheels were/are shit. And cassette hubs hadn’t been properly developed back then. There’s a few different ideas fresh on the bmx market but they won’t affect gearing.

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11/14/2019 10:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 10:30 AM

HEY! RACINE! I'm in Oak Creek (currently, but heading into Milwaukee a bit). Anyway, to you questions, a 25/9 has been sorta standard over the years as "freestyle" has progressed. It allows for better clearance , as you stated, for drop-ins, etc... and it also allows for stronger parts and frames don't have to be as altered for clearance of a larger sprocket. The 9t cassette also allows frame makers to keep smaller dropouts to keep weight down, etc..; As for the 25/9, there are people (myself included) that have gone to a 28/9 as it feels better (to me) for overall riding and less "spinning" when tolling around. There are also people who have been playing around in the 30/9 area but I think that's more of people messing about. As for racers in the 44/16 ratio, that's been a pretty common ratio for racers for decades. They aren't worried about clearance in the same way that people who ride street or parks might be. & a 44/16 is pretty close to the same ratio as 25/9 (see below):



Yes,flatland riding usually uses a shorter TT & that's typically to remain more compact which helps spins & the other tricks they do "around" the bike, but it's all personal preference. With Street, park, trails, etc... tt lengths are usually more tailored to the rider as opposed to the need of the discipline of the sport (but again it's all preference).


P.S. I'm not sure if it's happening to everyone but when I look at my post here, my pic of the gear ratio chart seems to be having issues. Hopefully you all can see it

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11/14/2019 10:23 AM

30/9 is where the party is at , 25/9 is as slow as a damn turtle

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11/14/2019 10:29 AM

eskimojay wrote:

30/9 is where the party is at , 25/9 is as slow as a damn turtle

Sure... if you have the space and chain line space.

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11/14/2019 10:30 AM

eskimojay wrote:

30/9 is where the party is at , 25/9 is as slow as a damn turtle

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Sure... if you have the space and chain line space.

That is true , it is getting shitty how 30 tooth sprockets and frames that fit them are becoming harder to find

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11/14/2019 10:33 AM

eskimojay wrote:

30/9 is where the party is at , 25/9 is as slow as a damn turtle

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Sure... if you have the space and chain line space.

eskimojay wrote:

That is true , it is getting shitty how 30 tooth sprockets and frames that fit them are becoming harder to find

That was my problem. I was just able to squeeze in a 28 on the tallboy. Anything larger would require spacing & then my chain line would suffer.

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11/14/2019 10:53 AM

Seems that more and more prefer above 25t. I recently made the swap to 28t from 25t and I’ll never go back.

As far as TT, I’m running a 19.69” TT, which is outlandish considering I ride mostly park, but I love the way a short TT pairs with a low standover. Feels twitchy and responsive, and my manuals and spins are much better compared to when I was on a 20.5” frame.

I’d say most are on 20.5” frames to 21” and maybe a little more these days.

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Scooter kid trying to ride a bike. Instagram: @scootereyn // YouTube: RH MEDIA

11/14/2019 11:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 11:29 AM

I am on 28/9. I'd love to try 30/9. I don't know if it would fit or not. 21in top tube but would like to try out a longer one. I wouldn't mind either a Fit Hartbreaker in 21.5 or a Mutiny Deathgrip in 21.6.

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11/14/2019 11:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 11:37 AM

I've been on 25/9 for a very long time, I even had 23/8 and 24/8, I've got a new 27t that I'm going to throw on along with my 9 should be interesting, I like the thought of more torque and faster speed cannot wait.

I run 20.4-20.6-75 and I ride anything, dirt, street, park, vert when I can find either of them.

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11/14/2019 11:37 AM

LOL, so I see I'm already behind the times thinking 25/9 is the standard.

I actually have another dimension question to add on top of it, bar width. I gotta measure my bars on my cruiser but I heard sometimes shorter was a thing for bar spins and then it seemed like people went to wider. Curious as to what you guys do with bars. I would think shorter would be stronger if it was a good design or material. 30 seems kind of..... wide. I guess people cut them though, eh?

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11/14/2019 11:38 AM

93EXCivic wrote:

I am on 28/9. I'd love to try 30/9. I don't know if it would fit or not. 21in top tube but would like to try out a longer one. I wouldn't mind either a Fit Hartbreaker in 21.5 or a Mutiny Deathgrip in 21.6.

That is one of the reasons why a larger tyre clearance is poo. Also makes the chain alignment harder to dial in along with bigger sprocks.

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11/14/2019 11:45 AM

Mishinn_Control wrote:

HEY! RACINE! I'm in Oak Creek (currently, but heading into Milwaukee a bit). Anyway, to you questions, a 25/9 has been sorta standard over the years as "freestyle" has progressed. It allows for better clearance , as you stated, for drop-ins, etc... and it also allows for stronger parts and frames don't have to be as altered for clearance of a larger sprocket. The 9t cassette also allows frame makers to keep smaller dropouts to keep weight down, etc..; As for the 25/9, there are people (myself included) that have gone to a 28/9 as it feels better (to me) for overall riding and less "spinning" when tolling around. There are also people who have been playing around in the 30/9 area but I think that's more of people messing about. As for racers in the 44/16 ratio, that's been a pretty common ratio for racers for decades. They aren't worried about clearance in the same way that people who ride street or parks might be. & a 44/16 is pretty close to the same ratio as 25/9 (see below):



Yes,flatland riding usually uses a shorter TT & that's typically to remain more compact which helps spins & the other tricks they do "around" the bike, but it's all personal preference. With Street, park, trails, etc... tt lengths are usually more tailored to the rider as opposed to the need of the discipline of the sport (but again it's all preference).


P.S. I'm not sure if it's happening to everyone but when I look at my post here, my pic of the gear ratio chart seems to be having issues. Hopefully you all can see it

I use sheldon browns calculator. Although for some reason it usually yields a bit different result. I think cuz the only option for tires in his program is 20 x 1.75. Not 2.125 or 2.3 or whatever..... So the gearing is usually a bit lower on his than the BMX charts I've seen. Thanks for the chart!! I can see it when I quote you for some reason.

OAK CREEK!!!!!! My son works at Farm and Fleet on Rawson. You're going the wrong way if you're moving into Milwaukee. LOL. Unless you're a young guy..... Then it makes sense. I'm just giving you crap. It's all good. I can't believe how busy drexel and howell is now. 10 years ago it was not nearly as busy. It's like a mini downtown now. Actually, now that I think of it, Drexel town square might have some good places to do tricks. Not really sure....

I'm total newb and not ready for it but I saw that Racine has a free park down by the lake. I'll have to check it out in the spring. I'm trying to get my 19 year old son to get interested and he said he might be. He's a computer fanatic but he seems to take to the bike when we ride around the neighborhood. (He's got a MT

Do you ride a park anywhere? Or is there a good spot for street? I thought maybe when my wife wants to go to the malls I might start bringing a bike. Give me an excuse to go with her. I haven't been to the mall in a long time though. LOL. They all seem to be going downhill, IMHO. Southridge is not what it used to be when I was growing up.

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11/14/2019 11:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 11:47 AM

Fortyseven wrote:

LOL, so I see I'm already behind the times thinking 25/9 is the standard.

I actually have another dimension question to add on top of it, bar width. I gotta measure my bars on my cruiser but I heard sometimes shorter was a thing for bar spins and then it seemed like people went to wider. Curious as to what you guys do with bars. I would think shorter would be stronger if it was a good design or material. 30 seems kind of..... wide. I guess people cut them though, eh?

I started out with shorter bars because it was a trend then slowly started looking with width currently at 29 once, I started going wider I noticed how much more comfortable they felt along with control pretty much never went back and then started on height and went from 7 all the way to 8.75 again feels pretty comfortable and better control but I will say everyone finds their own comforts/control at all sizes it really is personal feel that only matters. It is fun to try new geo's sizes etc though.

Edit: 29 not 30, 29 is plenty wide enough and bars spin just as easily as they did before.

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11/14/2019 11:53 AM

Cellmember wrote:

I've been on 25/9 for a very long time, I even had 23/8 and 24/8, I've got a new 27t that I'm going to throw on along with my 9 should be interesting, I like the thought of more torque and faster speed cannot wait.

I run 20.4-20.6-75 and I ride anything, dirt, street, park, vert when I can find either of them.

Your torque is gonna suffer a bit, not improve. But the speed is way better.

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11/14/2019 11:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 11:57 AM

readybmxer wrote:

Seems that more and more prefer above 25t. I recently made the swap to 28t from 25t and I’ll never go back.

As far as TT, I’m running a 19.69” TT, which is outlandish considering I ride mostly park, but I love the way a short TT pairs with a low standover. Feels twitchy and responsive, and my manuals and spins are much better compared to when I was on a 20.5” frame.

I’d say most are on 20.5” frames to 21” and maybe a little more these days.

Well, since you're from Hawaii you get to be different. LOL. I feel like I'd like a smaller top tube in the beginning. Although I'm not real big. 5-7" and 140 pounds. I have not really been able to ride a lot of different bikes yet though.... So I have the right to change my mind. LOL.

Interesting tidbit, I have Hawaiian in me. Not sure how much but supposedly my Great Grandma on my Dad's side was full blown Hawaiian. Not really sure but the pics of my Grandpa, I can see it.

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11/14/2019 12:07 PM

i ride a 28/9 with 165mm cranks and a 20.4 toptube. i only ride park

but i was riding 165's when everyone was still riding 175/180 and people were making fun of me.

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11/14/2019 12:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 12:11 PM

I want to try shorter cranks too.... But not sure how easy they are to find....


I'm not wrapping my head around how the frame will not allow a larger sprocket..... I mean does the seat tube flare out or something? Would someone be kind enough to explain that one to me? The bottom tube? Where would it rub?

Ah probably the lower chainstay, eh? Flares out some?

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11/14/2019 12:37 PM

Fortyseven wrote:

I want to try shorter cranks too.... But not sure how easy they are to find....


I'm not wrapping my head around how the frame will not allow a larger sprocket..... I mean does the seat tube flare out or something? Would someone be kind enough to explain that one to me? The bottom tube? Where would it rub?

Ah probably the lower chainstay, eh? Flares out some?

yes so frames have gotten lighter and tires have gotten bigger. i still ride a 2.10 in the rear.. but now people are riding 2.3 and 2.4's.. so in order to fit these wide tires.. rims are getting slightly wider and the rear tri's are getting wider. so running a bigger sprocket means they you have to have more spacers to push it out and you dont get that perfect chain line.

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11/14/2019 1:00 PM

i have old knees and try to ride 25/10 but no one is making 10t drivers anymore

and really what the fuck is with this hard ass 30/9 gearing and shit people are usng?
like how fucking often are you hitting a jump maxed out on your gear wishing you could go faster? never?
i run 25/10 and im still never pedaling *FULL SPEED* at something, i mean, ill crank at shit, but even hitting shit going HELLLLA FAST im still never spinnning out my pedals wishing i had more top speed. ive only ever once needed to hit a jump going that fast so i got someone to drive my truck and pull me.
oh and those tight spots with shitty small run-ups? i can crank down and accelerate up to jumping speed real quick

but yeah, so then you use that gear for commuting, eh? well your wearing away the joint tissue under your kneecap, fyi. your leg muscles are capable of exerting way more force than that joint tissue is capable of withstanding.

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11/14/2019 2:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 2:50 PM

Fortyseven wrote:

I want to try shorter cranks too.... But not sure how easy they are to find....


I'm not wrapping my head around how the frame will not allow a larger sprocket..... I mean does the seat tube flare out or something? Would someone be kind enough to explain that one to me? The bottom tube? Where would it rub?

Ah probably the lower chainstay, eh? Flares out some?

The rear end widens to allow more room for fatter tyres, which in turns widens the SS and CS, CS ends up getting stuck on higher sprocket sizes. There are a lot of frames that can't run anything bigger than a 25-26 without throwing out your chain alignment, which is pretty shittay. Oh yeah and they do lengthen the width of the BB, the largest so far is 73mm used to be 68mm. Any larger would just be complete dog shit.

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11/14/2019 5:08 PM

Personally I don't trust anything smaller than 10T on the rear as it puts too much stress on the chain. I believe that to be the main reason racers still rock larger diameter gears. Imagine sprinting as hard as you can and have the chain snap. Sucks. I'm really liking 33/11 right now and have never once thought the sprocket was in the way.

I recently discovered that I much prefer 21.25 TT even though I'm 5'10. Like most things, top tube length is all about preference and you will never know unless you try for yourself.

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11/14/2019 5:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/14/2019 5:38 PM

buttmeate wrote:

i have old knees and try to ride 25/10 but no one is making 10t drivers anymore

and really what the fuck is with this hard ass 30/9 gearing and shit people are usng?
like how fucking often are you hitting a jump maxed out on your gear wishing you could go faster? never?
i run 25/10 and im still never pedaling *FULL SPEED* at something, i mean, ill crank at shit, but even hitting shit going HELLLLA FAST im still never spinnning out my pedals wishing i had more top speed. ive only ever once needed to hit a jump going that fast so i got someone to drive my truck and pull me.
oh and those tight spots with shitty small run-ups? i can crank down and accelerate up to jumping speed real quick

but yeah, so then you use that gear for commuting, eh? well your wearing away the joint tissue under your kneecap, fyi. your leg muscles are capable of exerting way more force than that joint tissue is capable of withstanding.

The starting force is higher but once you're actually moving it's not all that different; just, you're covering more ground with every pedalstroke.

I've always found spinning out hurts my knees more than the little extra force to get to the same speed.

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11/14/2019 5:59 PM

Fortyseven wrote:

Well, since you're from Hawaii you get to be different. LOL. I feel like I'd like a smaller top tube in the beginning. Although I'm not real big. 5-7" and 140 pounds. I have not really been able to ride a lot of different bikes yet though.... So I have the right to change my mind. LOL.

Interesting tidbit, I have Hawaiian in me. Not sure how much but supposedly my Great Grandma on my Dad's side was full blown Hawaiian. Not really sure but the pics of my Grandpa, I can see it.

Lol, nice! I got no Hawaiian in me lol.

I forgot to mention, I also run huge bars. 10” tall, they came 30” wide, but I cut them to 27”. Seems many companies choose to provide wide bars so you can cut them to your liking.

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Scooter kid trying to ride a bike. Instagram: @scootereyn // YouTube: RH MEDIA

11/14/2019 9:53 PM

Not sure if this would quite apply, but I just recently got started in bmx. Until earlier this week i was riding an XL haro track bike at the skatepark and on the street. 44tooth (i think) chain ring and a ridiculously long chain stay. It was really quick in the park but the high gear made it weird.

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11/15/2019 4:44 AM

28/9 and a 21.25 top tube. 6 feet tall, longer torso shorter legs.

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11/15/2019 8:33 AM

Fortyseven wrote:

I want to try shorter cranks too.... But not sure how easy they are to find....


I'm not wrapping my head around how the frame will not allow a larger sprocket..... I mean does the seat tube flare out or something? Would someone be kind enough to explain that one to me? The bottom tube? Where would it rub?

Ah probably the lower chainstay, eh? Flares out some?

Cellmember wrote:

The rear end widens to allow more room for fatter tyres, which in turns widens the SS and CS, CS ends up getting stuck on higher sprocket sizes. There are a lot of frames that can't run anything bigger than a 25-26 without throwing out your chain alignment, which is pretty shittay. Oh yeah and they do lengthen the width of the BB, the largest so far is 73mm used to be 68mm. Any larger would just be complete dog shit.

There is an extra benifet to super wide chainstays for those of you riding street and brakeless, you can bend the hell out of your wheel or knock your wheel out of the dropouts and still keep riding without tools for longer. I run a 2.25 in the rear so I wouldn't mind in the tire clearance shrunk a little. I just like enough meat on my tire so I smack my rear rims less when I mess up.

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11/15/2019 8:47 AM

Lots of good input. I appreciate it guys.

Curious as to what people run for bar width, if anyone is doing smaller than typical and maybe why? And really what is "typical"? I have not shopped around enough to know how wide they are all coming. But like you say, you can cut.

Thanks for the schooling on the frame size and sprocket rubbing. At first I didn't get it, then it dawned on me and I had to go look at this crappy, free bike build I'm working on. My sprocket is 40 and I won't be able to go any bigger. But my cog is 18 and I don't really want to buy a whole new rear hub for this particular build. Although whatever I buy I'm trying to plan so that I could use it on a better frame down the road. Things like rims and tires and bars I can transfer. Pedals. But I know the crappy bikes have different sized front stems and bottom brackets then the el cheapo bikes. The gearing is pretty low on a 40/18 but might be good enough to start off doing tricks. It's in the low to mid 40's (gear inches)

But after tax returns I may spring for a new rear rim with a better hub. As long as it will fit, width wise on a crappy bike. That I have to look into.

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11/15/2019 10:49 AM

I cut bars to 27” before I put them on my bike

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11/15/2019 1:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/15/2019 1:03 PM

I think 28” seems the most reasonable for a starting width, but yeah, most companies offer 30” or so wide so more people will be attracted to buy them for their dimensions like upsweep, backsweep, and height. That way, people can buy them and cut to their preferences.

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Scooter kid trying to ride a bike. Instagram: @scootereyn // YouTube: RH MEDIA