Spokes vs rim

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12/3/2017 1:58 AM

I briefly started talking this subject on another post but felt it deserved its own.

Is it the spokes or the rim that give a wheel its strength? For example, is a 48h wheel single wall or a 36h double wall stronger?

I was working on a mid-school bike that 48h single wall. My newer bikes have 36h double wall. I was wondering if they ever made a 48h double wall with 14mm axles front and rear? I'd buy them. I would rather have a bullet proof wheel even it meant adding a little weight.

Thoughts?

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12/3/2017 2:29 AM

I dont know about front 14mm axles but I have 48-hole rims that are triple wall and double wall. Bone Deth are the only company currently selling a 48 hole wheelset (4X spoke lacing and double wall rims).

Hopefully guys who were alreading riding in the 2000s would chime in.

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12/3/2017 4:08 AM

Both add to the strength but spoke length, spoke angle, spoke material, how the threads were formed, nipple angles, nipple material, hub flange sizes, distance between hub flanges, how much material is outside the spoke holes, rim width, rim height, rim profile, number of walls in the rim, how the nipples sit in the rim, how far the nipple holes are apart from each other, location of the nipple holes, number of spokes and I'm sure there are others, all make a difference in strength as well. Why do you think you need 48s? 36s that are built right, with good parts should last you years.

Why do you need a 14mm front axle? How much grinding on the front peg do you really do and are you having problems snapping 3/8 females? Are you prepared to get new forks as well since the 14mm won't fit your current ones? There are some 14mm front hubs still floating around, I know at least one shop who still have one or two. I think they're 48h too but they've been sitting there since I'd say the late 2000s untouched because nobody actually needs them.

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12/3/2017 5:01 AM

p1p1092 wrote:

Both add to the strength but spoke length, spoke angle, spoke material, how the threads were formed, nipple angles, nipple material, hub flange sizes, distance between hub flanges, how much material is outside the spoke holes, rim width, rim height, rim profile, number of walls in the rim, how the nipples sit in the rim, how far the nipple holes are apart from each other, location of the nipple holes, number of spokes and I'm sure there are others, all make a difference in strength as well. Why do you think you need 48s? 36s that are built right, with good parts should last you years.

Why do you need a 14mm front axle? How much grinding on the front peg do you really do and are you having problems snapping 3/8 females? Are you prepared to get new forks as well since the 14mm won't fit your current ones? There are some 14mm front hubs still floating around, I know at least one shop who still have one or two. I think they're 48h too but they've been sitting there since I'd say the late 2000s untouched because nobody actually needs them.

They make n4fl's in 14mm

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Hmmm

12/3/2017 5:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/3/2017 5:14 AM

14mm front and rear 48h triple walls were pretty common when I started riding as a kid. Bikes also weighed 40 pounds easily. A good 36 double wall is strong enough for most riders.
Odyssey hazard lites are basically triple walls. If you want a solid rim, get those. They will last you years, and have proven to stand the test of time.

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12/3/2017 5:56 AM

Just to clarify, i'm not buying wheels. I was just curious more than anything. I have numerous bikes so im always on the lookout for wheels that will suit the bike. It seems like every bike I have has a different setup. I just got done restoring and modernizing a mid school bike. It came with 48/14mm front and back. I found some online but it wasn't easy. It got me thinking about why wheels were/are a certain way. Is it better, cheaper, the "in" thing, etc. I started my bmx career on Skyway mags in the 80's ha ha. I think those were 10mm front and back, not sure.

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12/3/2017 6:16 AM

It doesn't matter how many spokes, or how strong your rims are if the spokes aren't a good tension. It all goes hand in hand. You can get a 36h rim that's light and plenty strong enough now. But also learning how to ride/bail/fall off will help your wheels last a long time

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12/4/2017 2:36 PM

grumpySteve wrote:

It doesn't matter how many spokes, or how strong your rims are if the spokes aren't a good tension. It all goes hand in hand. You can get a 36h rim that's light and plenty strong enough now. But also learning how to ride/bail/fall off will help your wheels last a long time

I can build or fix anything but I have never attempted bmx wheels. I really need to learn. I just throw out the eggs and get new ones. Pretty stupid really.

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12/4/2017 2:38 PM

p1p1092 wrote:

Both add to the strength but spoke length, spoke angle, spoke material, how the threads were formed, nipple angles, nipple material, hub flange sizes, distance between hub flanges, how much material is outside the spoke holes, rim width, rim height, rim profile, number of walls in the rim, how the nipples sit in the rim, how far the nipple holes are apart from each other, location of the nipple holes, number of spokes and I'm sure there are others, all make a difference in strength as well. Why do you think you need 48s? 36s that are built right, with good parts should last you years.

Why do you need a 14mm front axle? How much grinding on the front peg do you really do and are you having problems snapping 3/8 females? Are you prepared to get new forks as well since the 14mm won't fit your current ones? There are some 14mm front hubs still floating around, I know at least one shop who still have one or two. I think they're 48h too but they've been sitting there since I'd say the late 2000s untouched because nobody actually needs them.

Wow..... Do you work for NASA? ha ha. Good stuff. Thanks.

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12/4/2017 8:00 PM

I guess to put it simply, Spokes control the horizontal forces, Rim controls the vertical forces.

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12/5/2017 3:16 AM

Wayne S wrote:

I guess to put it simply, Spokes control the horizontal forces, Rim controls the vertical forces.

Not quite; spokes take both kinds of forces, how much of each depends on the design of the rim. Spokes will always take the radial forces, especially when they are laced pretty much vertically but when the spokes go to or go across the centre line of the rim, quite a bit of any lateral force will be translated into radial force.

On the majority of all impacts, your tyres will absorb up to 30% of the force, depending on your tyre pressure, rim width and how you land. The rest goes through the rim, to the spokes, to the hub, through the axle to the frame and so on until it reaches the first thing that yields, usually(and hopefully) the rider, who then absorbs the landing.

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson

12/5/2017 3:19 AM

p1p1092 wrote:

Both add to the strength but spoke length, spoke angle, spoke material, how the threads were formed, nipple angles, nipple material, hub flange sizes, distance between hub flanges, how much material is outside the spoke holes, rim width, rim height, rim profile, number of walls in the rim, how the nipples sit in the rim, how far the nipple holes are apart from each other, location of the nipple holes, number of spokes and I'm sure there are others, all make a difference in strength as well. Why do you think you need 48s? 36s that are built right, with good parts should last you years.

Why do you need a 14mm front axle? How much grinding on the front peg do you really do and are you having problems snapping 3/8 females? Are you prepared to get new forks as well since the 14mm won't fit your current ones? There are some 14mm front hubs still floating around, I know at least one shop who still have one or two. I think they're 48h too but they've been sitting there since I'd say the late 2000s untouched because nobody actually needs them.

Stixxs wrote:

Wow..... Do you work for NASA? ha ha. Good stuff. Thanks.

Hahaha, nothing of the sort. Just a bit of a nerd!

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My Sunday Soundwave V3 Build
Insta: @p.gibbons

"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!""
- Hunter S. Thompson