Subrosa Villicus v1

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5/7/2015 11:28 AM

I recently got one of these bad boys in a local trade. The only post about it I found on vital was a bunch of guys saying how sanko chromoly sucks and that itll snap. And all this shit. I know thats not true, but please can somebody explain the difference in chromoly. Sanko, japanese, and whatever other kinds there are. Whats the strongest. Explain heat treating to.me if possible, do they just treat the welds or the whole thing. What is the proccess.

Im not a dipshit. I know my parts, Im just trying to learn more. Anybody talking to me like im an idiot, please dont bother commenting. I want to learn more about this. Please somebody clarify.

If youre here to help me, thank you for your time, I really appreciate any information.

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5/7/2015 4:10 PM

I'm pretty sure it's the company or place where the tubing was made. My skavenger is made out of mugen chromoly and it's supposedly 20% stonger than regular 4130 but idk why.

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5/7/2015 4:16 PM

blaaaaaaaaa wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's the company or place where the tubing was made. My skavenger is made out of mugen chromoly and it's supposedly 20% stonger than regular 4130 but idk why.

Alright that helps a little. Thank you man. Still would like a lot more clarification.

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5/7/2015 7:25 PM

I'm not 100% positive on this subject but I've heard Sanko chromoly is weaker in the sense that it can dent easier...


Also, it's all chromoly, just different company names like Reynolds tubing, Supertherm.



Heat treating though is what the name suggests.. The part is heated up to high temperatures to remove impurities & make the metal stronger by doing so. There are 2 types of heat treating.. pre-weld & post-weld

pre-weld heat treating means all the tubes that make up your frame are already heat treated before they get welded together, this saves time having to heat treat the frames afterward but can make it weaker at the welds since the welding process can fuck with the heat treatment in the tubing.

post-weld is when it's all heat treated after being welded together, resulting in not having to worry about fucking with the heat treatment in the tubing since it gets welded first, then heat treated, resulting in a stronger frame

then of course there are frames that aren't heat treated at all which saves a lot of money and thus makes the frame itself cheaper (I remember a United frame used to come in a heat treated and a non-heat treated version and the non-heat treated version was like $100 less.)




I think that's how that goes anyway, I'm a little rusty on the subject so I could be wrong about some things.

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5/7/2015 7:38 PM

sundaybmxRR wrote:

I'm not 100% positive on this subject but I've heard Sanko chromoly is weaker in the sense that it can dent easier...


Also, it's all chromoly, just different company names like Reynolds tubing, Supertherm.



Heat treating though is what the name suggests.. The part is heated up to high temperatures to remove impurities & make the metal stronger by doing so. There are 2 types of heat treating.. pre-weld & post-weld

pre-weld heat treating means all the tubes that make up your frame are already heat treated before they get welded together, this saves time having to heat treat the frames afterward but can make it weaker at the welds since the welding process can fuck with the heat treatment in the tubing.

post-weld is when it's all heat treated after being welded together, resulting in not having to worry about fucking with the heat treatment in the tubing since it gets welded first, then heat treated, resulting in a stronger frame

then of course there are frames that aren't heat treated at all which saves a lot of money and thus makes the frame itself cheaper (I remember a United frame used to come in a heat treated and a non-heat treated version and the non-heat treated version was like $100 less.)




I think that's how that goes anyway, I'm a little rusty on the subject so I could be wrong about some things.

Alright. I heard about the pre weld and post weld hest treated thing before. That makes sense.

But the whole different types of chromoly is confusing to me. So whats the list from best to worst chromoly.

Follow up question would be, what frames are post heat treated and made of the best chromoly?

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5/7/2015 7:50 PM

StoreBoughtChild wrote:

Alright. I heard about the pre weld and post weld hest treated thing before. That makes sense.

But the whole different types of chromoly is confusing to me. So whats the list from best to worst chromoly.

Follow up question would be, what frames are post heat treated and made of the best chromoly?

I don't fully understand the different types of chromoly enough but I read that neither one is really better than the other.. Sanko is the standard in japan, Reynolds is the standard in the UK, and 4130 is the standard in the US.

That's copy and pasted from a different thread on another forum so idk how true it is, I also read that Sanko chromoly is prone to having contamination in the metal which can make it weaker but I don't really know. That also doesn't automatically make Sanko the worst either though. Someone more knowledgeable on the subject needs to pop in here and clarify this haha.


But I'm not sure anymore. I know Danscomp or the company used to include that in the description, now it just says heat treated or it doesn't say that at all so I really don't know offhand.

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5/7/2015 7:54 PM

sundaybmxRR wrote:

I'm not 100% positive on this subject but I've heard Sanko chromoly is weaker in the sense that it can dent easier...


Also, it's all chromoly, just different company names like Reynolds tubing, Supertherm.



Heat treating though is what the name suggests.. The part is heated up to high temperatures to remove impurities & make the metal stronger by doing so. There are 2 types of heat treating.. pre-weld & post-weld

pre-weld heat treating means all the tubes that make up your frame are already heat treated before they get welded together, this saves time having to heat treat the frames afterward but can make it weaker at the welds since the welding process can fuck with the heat treatment in the tubing.

post-weld is when it's all heat treated after being welded together, resulting in not having to worry about fucking with the heat treatment in the tubing since it gets welded first, then heat treated, resulting in a stronger frame

then of course there are frames that aren't heat treated at all which saves a lot of money and thus makes the frame itself cheaper (I remember a United frame used to come in a heat treated and a non-heat treated version and the non-heat treated version was like $100 less.)




I think that's how that goes anyway, I'm a little rusty on the subject so I could be wrong about some things.

StoreBoughtChild wrote:

Alright. I heard about the pre weld and post weld hest treated thing before. That makes sense.

But the whole different types of chromoly is confusing to me. So whats the list from best to worst chromoly.

Follow up question would be, what frames are post heat treated and made of the best chromoly?

sundaybmxRR wrote:

I don't fully understand the different types of chromoly enough but I read that neither one is really better than the other.. Sanko is the standard in japan, Reynolds is the standard in the UK, and 4130 is the standard in the US.

That's copy and pasted from a different thread on another forum so idk how true it is, I also read that Sanko chromoly is prone to having contamination in the metal which can make it weaker but I don't really know. That also doesn't automatically make Sanko the worst either though. Someone more knowledgeable on the subject needs to pop in here and clarify this haha.


But I'm not sure anymore. I know Danscomp or the company used to include that in the description, now it just says heat treated or it doesn't say that at all so I really don't know offhand.

Thank you for the info. Yeah we really need an expert up in here. Sooner than later. Im curious.

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5/7/2015 8:26 PM

I had a sanko mutiny sinister that frame kicked ass, my buddy's still riding it

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5/7/2015 8:30 PM

eskimojay wrote:

I had a sanko mutiny sinister that frame kicked ass, my buddy's still riding it

Same here actually really good friend of mine rides a sinister. Been for about 2 years now. I didnt know they were sanko... That makes me feel better about this thing.

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5/7/2015 8:37 PM

It's all Chromo, which is good.

In terms of frame feel, things are very very hard to notice sometimes, The best way to feel the difference in frame feel is 180ing a stairset, you will feel a frame flex, if you pay attention. My Aitken s3.5 (which was a fun thing to ride) really did flex a good bit.

Sanko is just a type or "brand" of chromoly, I can vouch for it denting a little easier, but anything double butted is denting, Idk if the Villicus will or not, I don't know the true thickness of the tube. In my experience, Sanko has a bit more flex, just because it's a little flimsier sort of. It's hard to really say.

My Moose (you had it) was a really nice frame, fully heat treated, but compared to my Funday, it flexed, just because it was real light and stuff. Sunday's are easily the stiffest for obvious reasons.

Sanko basically has more give to it, which allows the frame to not bend or crack. But with enough force will just snap, as most frames might.


But don't get caught up in metal, that frame is SICK. i love the 69 degree seat tube angle. It feels amazing. Especially for turndowns.

RIde that shit.

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References: OneGuyIlluminatiEye, robinson79, Brian Griffin, The Horror Contact, StoreBoughtChild, C_Johnsonbmx, dkTechEthan, etc.

5/7/2015 8:57 PM

MaximusBikes wrote:

It's all Chromo, which is good.

In terms of frame feel, things are very very hard to notice sometimes, The best way to feel the difference in frame feel is 180ing a stairset, you will feel a frame flex, if you pay attention. My Aitken s3.5 (which was a fun thing to ride) really did flex a good bit.

Sanko is just a type or "brand" of chromoly, I can vouch for it denting a little easier, but anything double butted is denting, Idk if the Villicus will or not, I don't know the true thickness of the tube. In my experience, Sanko has a bit more flex, just because it's a little flimsier sort of. It's hard to really say.

My Moose (you had it) was a really nice frame, fully heat treated, but compared to my Funday, it flexed, just because it was real light and stuff. Sunday's are easily the stiffest for obvious reasons.

Sanko basically has more give to it, which allows the frame to not bend or crack. But with enough force will just snap, as most frames might.


But don't get caught up in metal, that frame is SICK. i love the 69 degree seat tube angle. It feels amazing. Especially for turndowns.

RIde that shit.

Thats very helpful. So less stiff, more flex Is good, Unless youre a street wizard. My friend rode this frame for over a year. Traded it to a guy whos been riding it for a year also. Literally in the same condition. still perfect. If it was sand blasted and repainted black you wouldnt be able to tell a difference from day 1 to now. This thing is in prime ass condition. Im never getting rid of this frame unless im offered another subrosa. I rode it around my block today after putting it together for the first time. It feels amazing. Also since im really excited about it, and since I cant post pictures from my phone. Im gonna send you a picture real quick.

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5/7/2015 10:11 PM

Tru-threm, sanko, super therm, OX-platinum blah blah blah.. Is the CrMo equivalent to nike, adidas, and rebok. Sanko sucks i guess, but We the People stuff is kickass! we the people uses sanko. My frames sanko. A large difference is that sanko is considered jap crap where as super-therm is USA made. So obviously, ours is way better.

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5/8/2015 5:42 AM

Nwewinit wrote:

Tru-threm, sanko, super therm, OX-platinum blah blah blah.. Is the CrMo equivalent to nike, adidas, and rebok. Sanko sucks i guess, but We the People stuff is kickass! we the people uses sanko. My frames sanko. A large difference is that sanko is considered jap crap where as super-therm is USA made. So obviously, ours is way better.

That's not that true really, Tubing has slight variances and I have seen just as many Super Therm frames that are broken as Japanese.

Also I'm very sure that Sanko is seamless and Tru-Therm isn't. Seamless is better.

The main reason people don't like the steel from Japan is because they want to help the US steel business, which I know a lot about because I live in the Pittsburgh area and stuff.

So sometimes you can literally just get a bad frame because one of the tubes was a little off. Or a weld was shitty. As to say which is stronger, better, whatever, you'd somehow have to know exactly how many of each type of frame broke.

And OX-Platinum is actually different steel than the standard Super Therm. Something about it is stronger, I'm not a licensed mechanist or whatever you have to be to know that so I can't really tell you why in a scientific view. But if Zach Gerber rides a Standard with it as the front end and with no gussets without blowing it up, you know there is something tougher about it.


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References: OneGuyIlluminatiEye, robinson79, Brian Griffin, The Horror Contact, StoreBoughtChild, C_Johnsonbmx, dkTechEthan, etc.

5/8/2015 6:40 AM

Does anyone know what kind of chromoly Fly uses? Sorry for thread jacking.

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5/8/2015 6:43 AM

NewAndImprovedClancy wrote:

Does anyone know what kind of chromoly Fly uses? Sorry for thread jacking.

They use POS chromoly.

Made by the POS company.

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5/8/2015 6:59 AM

I ran a 4.6lb Sanko frame for daily street riding and it lasted a little over 3 years which surprised me due to how light it was. Im sure some chromoly companies standards of production are higher than others, but that's not publicly advertised, so anything anyone says about one company's product vs. another is likely a rumor or theory.

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Refs : SnM An1mal, GThompson121, Chuck8273, blizzbikes, bmxsteve99, kevin.brock.338, zinum, Brian_Griffin, billyhandyjunior, riverM, tomdon
Instagram : @timhankinsbmx


5/8/2015 7:22 AM

Nwewinit wrote:

Tru-threm, sanko, super therm, OX-platinum blah blah blah.. Is the CrMo equivalent to nike, adidas, and rebok. Sanko sucks i guess, but We the People stuff is kickass! we the people uses sanko. My frames sanko. A large difference is that sanko is considered jap crap where as super-therm is USA made. So obviously, ours is way better.

MaximusBikes wrote:

That's not that true really, Tubing has slight variances and I have seen just as many Super Therm frames that are broken as Japanese.

Also I'm very sure that Sanko is seamless and Tru-Therm isn't. Seamless is better.

The main reason people don't like the steel from Japan is because they want to help the US steel business, which I know a lot about because I live in the Pittsburgh area and stuff.

So sometimes you can literally just get a bad frame because one of the tubes was a little off. Or a weld was shitty. As to say which is stronger, better, whatever, you'd somehow have to know exactly how many of each type of frame broke.

And OX-Platinum is actually different steel than the standard Super Therm. Something about it is stronger, I'm not a licensed mechanist or whatever you have to be to know that so I can't really tell you why in a scientific view. But if Zach Gerber rides a Standard with it as the front end and with no gussets without blowing it up, you know there is something tougher about it.


Super therm isn't seamless? Wow, I thought it was extruded like the sanko. Fuck that garbage. However, thats a difference in the manufacturing process of the tubing, not the alloy.

OX platnium is still CrMo i can't remember whats in it. There like cobalt mixed in with the alloy..

OX platnium is the only one mentioned above that may not be considered 4130 CrMo. the difference is manufacturing process not the alloy just like the frames

my frames post weled heat treated, shot peened, and has internal gussests. Any of yours probably do not, unless you have the same frame as me.

I wasn't trying to be entirely right when I said there like nike, adidas, and reebok. Does CrMo suck because the sanko plant sucks, NOPE. I'm also not going to boycott cowhide leather because my glove got a hole. I would say don't buy nike gloves there trash.

Sanko is just a brand, like shoes. Thats all, I like my jap-crap redline device G7 frame. Because i like the brand and process of the frame.

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5/8/2015 7:56 AM

NewAndImprovedClancy wrote:

Does anyone know what kind of chromoly Fly uses? Sorry for thread jacking.

StoreBoughtChild wrote:

They use POS chromoly.

Made by the POS company.

POS? As in piece of shit?

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5/8/2015 8:06 AM

NewAndImprovedClancy wrote:

Does anyone know what kind of chromoly Fly uses? Sorry for thread jacking.

StoreBoughtChild wrote:

They use POS chromoly.

Made by the POS company.

NewAndImprovedClancy wrote:

POS? As in piece of shit?

Yeah it was a joke. Sorry for the confusion.

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5/8/2015 8:12 AM

StoreBoughtChild wrote:

They use POS chromoly.

Made by the POS company.

NewAndImprovedClancy wrote:

POS? As in piece of shit?

StoreBoughtChild wrote:

Yeah it was a joke. Sorry for the confusion.

Lol.

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5/8/2015 9:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/8/2015 4:08 PM

http://gsportbmx.co.uk/support/rideuktech/materials.html

Read this.

INB4 G-Sport devil worship conspiracy.

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5/8/2015 6:41 PM

Mychaylo wrote:

http://gsportbmx.co.uk/support/rideuktech/materials.html

Read this.

INB4 G-Sport devil worship conspiracy.

I was gonna copy/paste that but figured it was too long for anyone to bother reading haha

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