The Smile Seat Clamp System thoughts?

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4/10/2018 9:59 PM

Mutant Bikes just dropped this video showcasing their new seat clamp system what do you guys think? Personally I think it could potentially have solved the whole seat post seizing in the frame issue but if the seat takes a direct hit with enough force and/or from a high enough drop the bolt could snap either way it's awesome to see innovation even in the smallest ways smile

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The Whip

4/10/2018 10:08 PM

I like it, actually! Maybe a tiny percentage of structural integrity is lost, but I can see it catching on.

Total BMX also did something similar with their early model frames. Never looked into how their system works, but it popped into my head just now.

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4/10/2018 10:12 PM

DatJiggyNiggy wrote:

Mutant Bikes just dropped this video showcasing their new seat clamp system what do you guys think? Personally I think it ...more

There was already a solution for seized seat posts. Lol.

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4/10/2018 10:18 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/10/2018 10:18 PM

jbales wrote:

There was already a solution for seized seat posts. Lol.

Is it grease? Lol!!! It's still pretty cool tho also @ready I remember those total frames too I'm still curious as to how that system works

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Ride your bike.

Eat your vegetables.

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The Whip

4/10/2018 10:26 PM

still won't solve the seat post seizing in the frame issue though, there's still a small sliver of room in between the post and seat tube for seizing to occur. A coat of grease will fix that problem.

it's innovative, but not too different though. I've heard of people drilling holes through their seat tubes/posts and running a bolt through it many years ago, this is essentially the same thing only the smile tab keeps the post from rattling around.


That Total frame above likely uses a similar wedge system to this

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4/10/2018 10:27 PM

I was just about to post that same picture.

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4/10/2018 11:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/10/2018 11:45 PM

I don't think its that great of an idea sure its something "new" but honestly if you want a cleaner look with less effort just use a wedge post.

Plus the added holes in the seat post could mean and most likely will mean a weaker seat post.

If the seat tube is off in any way your pretty much stuck with a crooked seat that way unless your savvy with modifications to a frame to fix it, most likely would be a defect and a return.

The system isn't new for anyone wondering, they've been doing them for a few years now.

I personally prefer traditional slot removable seat clamp/wedge post, over anything out there for obvious reasons.

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4/10/2018 11:42 PM

sundaybmxRR wrote:

still won't solve the seat post seizing in the frame issue though, there's still a small sliver of room in between the post ...more

Yeah you're correct, a buddy of mine did that back in 2008 I believe. Definitely not new.

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4/11/2018 2:47 AM

People have been DIYing that for years. And to me it just looks like an unthought out gimmick. Normal seat post clamps are the way to go

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4/11/2018 4:33 AM

grumpySteve wrote:

People have been DIYing that for years. And to me it just looks like an unthought out gimmick. Normal seat post clamps are the ...more

How dare you suggest a solution that's only been working for over 100 years!!!

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4/11/2018 4:35 AM

readybmxer wrote:

I like it, actually! Maybe a tiny percentage of structural integrity is lost, but I can see it catching on.

Total BMX also ...more

Yeah, & Eastern has a similar design in some of their frames. I think the Grim Reaper employs this sort of design.

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4/11/2018 6:47 AM

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Yeah, & Eastern has a similar design in some of their frames. I think the Grim Reaper employs this sort of design.

You are correct, the Grim Reaper has one through the seat stays. I would kind of worry about a clamp like this though because they are going through the seat stays.

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4/11/2018 7:30 AM

readybmxer wrote:

I like it, actually! Maybe a tiny percentage of structural integrity is lost, but I can see it catching on.

Total BMX also ...more

Mishinn_Control wrote:

Yeah, & Eastern has a similar design in some of their frames. I think the Grim Reaper employs this sort of design.

HavokDJ wrote:

You are correct, the Grim Reaper has one through the seat stays. I would kind of worry about a clamp like this though because ...more

It's "bossed" in that area so it isn't creating a weak point (as it would if someone just drilled their seat stays & made their own).

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4/11/2018 10:46 AM

I like it. For weight savings the drilled holes would lessen the weight of the post but if you ever had a problem with the tab that compresses against the post it wouldnt be as easy as a fix as buying a new seat post clamp.




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4/11/2018 11:38 AM

Bulletpup wrote:

I like it. For weight savings the drilled holes would lessen the weight of the post but if you ever had a problem with the tab ...more

They probably wouldn't save any weight as the holes would need to be reinforced to prevent the holes from enlarging when the seat is hit hard.

Another limitation of this is that the seat always has to be straight. I know a few people who like to have it offset to one side or the other(something to do with goofy bars, if I remember correctly).

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4/11/2018 12:15 PM

Contrary to what seems to be believed here posts do indeed seize at the clamp (anywhere there is contact), particularly with aluminium posts in steel frames (galvanic corrosion) which is what we all run

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4/11/2018 12:18 PM

jawn wrote:

Contrary to what seems to be believed here posts do indeed seize at the clamp (anywhere there is contact), particularly with ...more

I currently don't run an aluminum post because I haven't picked up my new pivotal from the LBS, so I'm actually running a chromoly railed seatpost from some company I can't remember, probably sun or something.

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Gave up on BMX to hang out with 13 year old soundcloud rappers, what a life, such a cool guy!
-Sheldon on Adam22

"The only future for BMX"

Yeah, kids getting shit bikes, breaking them and then quitting. LOL
-jbales on mafiaBIKES

I’ve been a 14 year old beginner for the last ten years
-adamnmexican

4/11/2018 12:43 PM

jawn wrote:

Contrary to what seems to be believed here posts do indeed seize at the clamp (anywhere there is contact), particularly with ...more

Which is also why everyone should use grease in that location.

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4/11/2018 1:09 PM

I think you'll find that:

There's usually more contact around the clamp, where the inner diam of the seat tube is contracted to the outer diam of the post (O) with the post generally contacting only the front inside surface of the seat tube under neath the clamp area (O )

There's not much fretting on slammed seats and/or 4 inch posts

'seizing' further down is generally the result of trapped humidity, obviously not ideal for steel on steel but also greatly reduces the potential needed for galv, corrosion in alu on steel contact

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4/11/2018 1:41 PM

I hate to break it to you though, but fretting doesn't cause posts to get stuck, it actually negates it

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4/11/2018 1:57 PM

Yeah I saw that you typed that above, but there needs to be no movement for that to happen. Not to mention the erosion of an alu post in a steel frame is going to reduce contact area and increase the distance things have to move in order to make contact in the first place, as well as erode away the very surface that is reacting before it can react, as well as any humidity on that surface

Fretting of 2 surfaces negates galvanic corrosion of those 2 surfaces, they are mutually exclusive. It's self-defeating, sorry

Now, had you brought up something like a post being deformed out of round (a real issue not mentioned in the thread yet), you'd be onto something

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4/11/2018 4:18 PM

Shavings would work there way downward toward the BB, or left alone (unuse or introduction of preload) could react. But they aren't the seat post itself, and won't galv to the seat post (galvanic corrosion is caused by dissimilar metals) thus inhibiting galv corrosion from sticking the post to the frame somewhat

Steel has more elastic modulus than alu, alu can be plastically deformed into a shape by the steel that is then trapped by interference fit when the load on the steel that elastically deformed it to that shape is released

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4/11/2018 10:27 PM

in 35+ years of riding a bike, I have never had a seat post seize. And I live in a very moist part of the world.

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4/12/2018 12:32 AM

pnj wrote:

in 35+ years of riding a bike, I have never had a seat post seize. And I live in a very moist part of the world.

Nor I in almost as much time. Mind you, these days posts generally don't 'seize' in BMX (galv. corrosion isn't very common either unless it's an old bike), people aren't running their seats up and going nuts on the seat clamp to try and prevent misalignment, nor are people jamming 1" posts into 7/8" seat tube frames which is generally what I think of when it comes to 'seizing'

But as a long time mechanic I've had to deal with it, even going so far as dissolving an alu post chemically to get it out of a frame

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4/12/2018 1:02 AM

I like the old style railed seats with a seatpost clamp separate from the frame. Idk why I just do.

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@coupd_tat

4/12/2018 6:37 AM

Eh. Its been done before during the lightbikeco era and it doesnt even look very clean.

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4/12/2018 6:43 AM

looks stupid

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It’s all bmx

4/12/2018 2:00 PM

jawn wrote:

Shavings would work there way downward toward the BB, or left alone (unuse or introduction of preload) could react. But they ...more

Shavings begin to work their way toward the BB but a relatively significant amount will stick around. You appear to be making the assumption that there are no steel shavings or even salt(sodium chloride, quite reactive) in the seat tube. You end up with some embedded steel shavings in the post and some embedded aluminium/aluminium oxide shavings embedded in the tube.
Below, A is where the seatclamp normally sits(as witnessed by the marks from a hard landing). B is where it's been fretting since it was bought(slowly growing, bit by bit); it'd look like C after a week sitting in my shed but after one ride, that same surface finish shows up. C is where the very, very fine shavings from the fretting action have travelled down to and reacted with each other and whatever salt or anything else that's found its way in there. Keep in mind, this post is regreased every 3 months with anti-seize but I live in one of the saltiest, wettest, most poorly drained places in my shithole country so, the anti-seize is quickly washed down and replaced.
Photo

Any chance you could reword that last point? I think I get the gist of what you're saying but due to the way it's worded, I just can't be sure.

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"You can't educate pork"
- grumpySteve

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- Hunter S. Thompson

4/12/2018 8:11 PM

Sorry I'm late to the party, but I would like to politely interject. I believe that both of you are wrong, although, one of you is way off & the other is very close. The reason seatposts seize is simply due to the inside of the seat tube rusting. The rust, as it forms, is slowly decreasing the tolerances between the inside of the seat tube & the seatpost, which are typically pretty tight. This is more so the case with higher end frames as the tubings tolerances are diligently checked during the manufacturing process. If you put a seat post in a frame, let it sit for a few months in the garage without riding it, chances are that the humidity in the air will introduce enough moisture to the raw steel inside the seat tube , that it will rust & seize. The seat tube is not under loads that would cause the forces needed to "flex" it much at all, let alone enough to cause a chemical reaction. Some companies (Sunday) coat the inside of there frames & this example is one reason why. But for those that are not painted inside the seat tube, a good coat of grease will help protect the seat tube from moisture causing rust.

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4/12/2018 10:28 PM

Mutant has offered this setup since like 2014 so i don't think itll catch on any time soon.

back in 2007 i had drilled a hole in my frame and seat post because the previous owner had welded the ralied seat to the seatstays in order to get that ultra slammed look

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