Total Frame for Street? ...not "heavy" street, a bit lighter stuff.

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5/4/2014 9:57 AM

I want the new Total Killabee (Kyle Baldock Sig.) Frame and since summer is coming up here in the good ol
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I do not ride hard so I figured it should be alright. Aside from street riding I would be taking it to parks here and there. I love ALL of the geo on it, steep headtube, really short rear, low standover but not scooterbike low, good bottom bracket height as well. I am just really tempted to get this frame, but have heard a few bad things here and there about Total Frames...

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5/4/2014 10:09 AM

Why do you want it? The geo isn't really anything special, and neither is anything on the frame. But it will probably be OK.

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5/4/2014 10:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/4/2014 10:26 AM

BMX_Forever wrote:

Why do you want it? The geo isn't really anything special, and neither is anything on the frame. But it will probably be OK.

Well, I like the geo because...
I want a super short rear end (like the Sunday Broadcaster and United Dinero)
Steep headtube angle (like the Fit Benny L, Fit WIFI, Federal Lacey, Sunday Broadcaster, etc.)
The standover is what I pretty much want, I wanted the WTP Scorpio when it had that height
The bottom bracket height is a plus for me, I just know that.

It just seems like, for me anyways, an enjoyable frame.

EDIT: Yeah the frame does not look like anything special, which can be good, I do not like those super flashy looking frames.

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5/4/2014 10:32 AM

United Dinero
75.5hta
12.9cs
8.5so (feels more like 8.25 IMO)
11.8bb

Sounds exactly like what you want. I personally wouldnt trust a Total. Yes you might not ride very hard, but you may aswell get something designed to be rode hard, will last longer and function better.

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5/4/2014 10:56 AM

most of my friends ride them or have rode them, never any issues at all and my 657 was absolutely solid I just hated the geo on it end of the day its about the same weight as pretty much any other frame so the strength is also going to be pretty similar, and with how hard Baldock crashes and lands its not going to be a weak frame.
and to the other guys the geo is pretty different to standard frames...

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5/4/2014 11:05 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

most of my friends ride them or have rode them, never any issues at all and my 657 was absolutely solid I just hated the geo ...more

Weight=strength?
So I can drill holes in my frame and fill it with concrete to make up for the lost weight and it will still be just as strong?
And how do you know Baldock doesn't swap frames every month? How do you know he doesn't ride a beefier or better built version than the production model?
And I believe I heard Totals are shit for peg use because thin dropouts and the tapered stays. I dont know about them cracking/snapping, but theyre supposedly easier to dent than a tin can. A nice dent will eventually lead to a crack though.
I would get a street frame with geo you want. Total doesn't have any solid street riders (not saying no one on their team cant ride street), so I wouldn't trust their parts for it.

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5/4/2014 11:24 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

most of my friends ride them or have rode them, never any issues at all and my 657 was absolutely solid I just hated the geo ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Weight=strength?
So I can drill holes in my frame and fill it with concrete to make up for the lost weight and it will still ...more

to a degree yes, a 5lbs frame will be stronger than a 4lb frame if made in the same way without any defects. and that arguement is somewhat illogical, why would a rider design a signature frame that is not even strong enough for them to ride, no one would do that as it would increase your chances of getting injured and no riders do that, they ride the same frame that is being sold to the public. period.
thin tubing is actually much harder to dent as well and as I said many of my friends ride them, most of them ride street mainly and none of them have had any issues what so ever, they are no weaker than the vast majority of frames out there and infact outlasted Fly, United and Cult frames rode by the same people.
to be honest it just seems like illogical hating on the brand due to their image, if their products were as shit as you guys are making them out to be then they would have gone out of bussiness a long time ago

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5/4/2014 11:30 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

to a degree yes, a 5lbs frame will be stronger than a 4lb frame if made in the same way without any defects. and that ...more

Garrett Reynolds and the Deattrap. That disproves your first claim.

"Thin tubing is actually much harder to dent as well." You're a fucking moron.

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5/4/2014 11:32 AM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Weight=strength?
So I can drill holes in my frame and fill it with concrete to make up for the lost weight and it will still ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

to a degree yes, a 5lbs frame will be stronger than a 4lb frame if made in the same way without any defects. and that ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Garrett Reynolds and the Deattrap. That disproves your first claim.

"Thin tubing is actually much harder to dent as well." ...more

yeah and he left the company because of it not to mention that the web was awash with reports of snapped ones unlike total frames, and it was clearly in reference to the diameter on the tubing not the metal, moron

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5/4/2014 11:36 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

yeah and he left the company because of it not to mention that the web was awash with reports of snapped ones unlike total ...more

"Thin tubing" means thin tubing. Small diameter means small diameter. They're not interchangeable. I guess since we can just fuck with terminology, I'll start calling bikes trucks.

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5/4/2014 11:41 AM

Xxohioanxx wrote:

Garrett Reynolds and the Deattrap. That disproves your first claim.

"Thin tubing is actually much harder to dent as well." ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

yeah and he left the company because of it not to mention that the web was awash with reports of snapped ones unlike total ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote:

"Thin tubing" means thin tubing. Small diameter means small diameter. They're not interchangeable. I guess since we can just ...more

i should post a truck check

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5/4/2014 11:41 AM

JoeDavidson wrote:

most of my friends ride them or have rode them, never any issues at all and my 657 was absolutely solid I just hated the geo ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Weight=strength?
So I can drill holes in my frame and fill it with concrete to make up for the lost weight and it will still ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

to a degree yes, a 5lbs frame will be stronger than a 4lb frame if made in the same way without any defects. and that ...more

So a 5lb frame with tapered/butted tubing would be stronger than a 4.5lb frame with straight gauge tubing, top and bottom gussets, and postweld heat treatment? Its possible, but most likely not. All im getting at is weight is pretty irrelevant to strength to an extent. Obviously a 3lb frame would probably be shit just because theres wouldn't be enough material in general. But 4.5lbs is enough to make an indestructible frame if built right. 5.5lbs isnt enough to build even a half decent frame if it is built weirdly (I.e., tapered weld areas, thin drop outs, no heat treatment, etc.)

And MANY riders ride modified versions of their sig frames. Why doesn't the company just sell the stronger versions then? Because they would be $500 frames and nobody would buy them.

Im just saying, I wouldn't trust the thin tubesets or tapered weld areas on the Totals worth a damn. Im glad that you and your friends like them, but I would rather have thicker tubing and larger weld areas for obvious reasons.

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5/4/2014 11:42 AM

tomdon wrote:

i should post a truck check

I did a flat 360 on my truck today.

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5/4/2014 11:49 AM

Xxohioanxx wrote:

"Thin tubing" means thin tubing. Small diameter means small diameter. They're not interchangeable. I guess since we can just ...more

tomdon wrote:

i should post a truck check

Xxohioanxx wrote:

I did a flat 360 on my truck today.

I drove my truck today. It was so weird throwing the wheel while rotating.

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5/4/2014 11:56 AM

my truck is brown. just like poop

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5/4/2014 12:15 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Weight=strength?
So I can drill holes in my frame and fill it with concrete to make up for the lost weight and it will still ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

to a degree yes, a 5lbs frame will be stronger than a 4lb frame if made in the same way without any defects. and that ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

So a 5lb frame with tapered/butted tubing would be stronger than a 4.5lb frame with straight gauge tubing, top and bottom ...more

as I said if made in the same way.
Also what can they do to make it stronger, the frames are all visibly the same and other than adding internal gussets(already used on lost of production frames), investment casting (which clearly isn't used on the vast vast majority of pros frames) and heat treatment (which is a possibility but many companies use it already) what else is there that would make these frames so much stronger and more expeinsive.
Also most pros go and pick their frames up from the stock room of the local distro (footage of Chad Kerley, Kriss Kyle and other big name pro's doing it) i mean yes im sure it does happen but to me it seems like these accusations would not be made of say Fiend or cult.

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5/4/2014 12:29 PM

If you're doing everything it should be fine. Everyone hates Total for scooterframes but they seem pretty good. I mean , Kyle rides it and it's fine.

Just expect things realisitically. If you're doing nollie trucks off a roof then odds are it'll break. If you ride flowy park , box jump tricks , lip tricks with pegs and maybe the occasional feeble grind or sketchy bank session then you're fine. It has 5mm dropouts so it's not horrible.

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5/4/2014 12:34 PM

JoeDavidson wrote:

to a degree yes, a 5lbs frame will be stronger than a 4lb frame if made in the same way without any defects. and that ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

So a 5lb frame with tapered/butted tubing would be stronger than a 4.5lb frame with straight gauge tubing, top and bottom ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

as I said if made in the same way.
Also what can they do to make it stronger, the frames are all visibly the same and other ...more

Not saying everyone does it, but a lot do. Examples would be heat treated (post weld to be more specific), thicker/higher quality tube sets, different variations of butting and tapering (more expensive, stronger types than what is used on production model frames), higher quality welds, hydroforming, etc. There is a TON of things you can do while making a frame/part to make it significantly stronger, but they are all too expensive to use for mass production, frames would be $500-600 AND they would last alot longer than normal. This means less people would buy the frame to begin with, and very few people would break it and buy another one. Companies would spend more money than theyd make.
A frame with solid material (no tubing) made from 7075 aluminum can look the exact same as a frame with 4130 tubing. Are they the same though? No.

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5/4/2014 12:42 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Not saying everyone does it, but a lot do. Examples would be heat treated (post weld to be more specific), thicker/higher ...more

yet you can see on pro's bike checks the frames look identical, honestly the only one i see as even vaguely likely is heat treatment and different tube sets.
but as i said there's loads of footage of Pro's just picking frames up from the stock room of the distros or from shops
this logic the same could be applied to any company also if you can provide me with some evidence of this that would be grand

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5/4/2014 12:50 PM

JoeDavidson wrote:

as I said if made in the same way.
Also what can they do to make it stronger, the frames are all visibly the same and other ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Not saying everyone does it, but a lot do. Examples would be heat treated (post weld to be more specific), thicker/higher ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

yet you can see on pro's bike checks the frames look identical, honestly the only one i see as even vaguely likely is heat ...more

Just because it looks identical doesnt mean it is. Re read the last paragraph of my previous post.

And whos to say the distro doesn't have their custom frame already there for them to pick up? And maybe theyre just picking it up and video taping it to make you think that the pros ride those exact frames?

Like I said, im not saying its always the case or that it is the case here, but you wouldn't know if it was.

Don't buy a part because some guy you dont even know supposedly runs it, that doesn't prove anything.

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5/4/2014 1:00 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Just because it looks identical doesnt mean it is. Re read the last paragraph of my previous post.

And whos to say the distro ...more

or maybe they you know, run the same frames.
I did read the paragraph however things such as hydro forming and different tapering techniques look different. Honestly if you can provide some evidence I will happily believe you but there seems to be a lot more evidence for them just running the production ones then not.
Some of the footage is on Ride to Glory of kriss kyle literally picking one off the shop shelf, there are also clips of Hamlin picking a frame out of a big set of boxes all at the distro, same goes for Chad kerley and also Broc Raiford. As I said lots more evidfence for them just running the frames.

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5/4/2014 1:03 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Just because it looks identical doesnt mean it is. Re read the last paragraph of my previous post.

And whos to say the distro ...more

Photo
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5/4/2014 1:04 PM

JoeDavidson wrote:

yet you can see on pro's bike checks the frames look identical, honestly the only one i see as even vaguely likely is heat ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Just because it looks identical doesnt mean it is. Re read the last paragraph of my previous post.

And whos to say the distro ...more

Xxohioanxx wrote: Photo

seems legit

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5/4/2014 1:09 PM

JoeDavidson wrote:

yet you can see on pro's bike checks the frames look identical, honestly the only one i see as even vaguely likely is heat ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Just because it looks identical doesnt mean it is. Re read the last paragraph of my previous post.

And whos to say the distro ...more

JoeDavidson wrote:

or maybe they you know, run the same frames.
I did read the paragraph however things such as hydro forming and different ...more

Once again, I never said its always the case. I never said every pro rider runs a custom frame. Alot of them do run production model frames. This is because alot of them aren't rough on frames and alot of companies do make frames strong enough to hold up to their riding. Some companies are so small and broke that they couldn't afford to make custom frames for their riders in the first place.

I want to see your proof though. Show me your proof that the frame he grabbed is 100% the same internally as every other production model version of it. I want to see the proof that it is not a custom frame that was placed there to look like a production model. I want to see the proof that, even if it is a production model frame, he doesn't replace it every month.

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5/4/2014 1:09 PM

tomdon wrote:

my truck is brown. just like poop

My truck is black and red, just like when you wait a week to poop.

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5/4/2014 1:10 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Once again, I never said its always the case. I never said every pro rider runs a custom frame. Alot of them do run production ...more

The burden of proof is on you, my friend.

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5/4/2014 1:14 PM

Xxohioanxx wrote:

The burden of proof is on you, my friend.

Haha. But how do I prove such a thing? Go buy a bunch of frames, cut them open, and then go steal a bunch of pros' bikes and cut those open aswell? Haha.

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5/4/2014 1:15 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Haha. But how do I prove such a thing? Go buy a bunch of frames, cut them open, and then go steal a bunch of pros' bikes and ...more

That's exactly what I was getting at.

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5/4/2014 1:21 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Once again, I never said its always the case. I never said every pro rider runs a custom frame. Alot of them do run production ...more

Im not going through all of those videos to find them, do it for yourself. you have no proof what so ever and making a claim that is at best unlikely despite evidence completely contradicting it.
End of the day whatever I say you are going to come up with some reason as to why its incorrect using some product placement ideology that you cannot back up in any way shape or form and then claim that despite the evidence suggesting otherwise.
Feel free to continue mindlessly hating on a company again with no evidence or experience to back you up but I have better things to do so ciao.

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5/4/2014 1:24 PM

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