how bad is riding an untrue wheel for the rim?

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11/19/2013 12:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/19/2013 12:50 PM

two weeks ago i laced a brand new gsport rollcage and a odyssey hazard v3 with 34r spokes (these: http://34r.cz/spokes), it was the second wheel i've ever laced myself, i watched a tutorial but as the gsport rollcage is crosslaced, it wasn't really useful, anyways, i managed to lace it properly (or at least that's what i think), trying to do it as similar as i could to a gsport wheel laced by gsport, and the thing is, i managed to tighten my spokes properly and keep the wheel really true (it doesn't move anything, not even 0.5mm to any side) but it does move up and down, it has a hop (the hop is like 1-2mm). so, after writing all of this, does that hop really matter? will the rim get more damage by impacts because of this?

sorry for my english, hope you understood it

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11/19/2013 12:54 PM

If you keep riding it like that it will obviously get worse and after a whilr it will mess up your rim to where you wont be able to get it completely straight

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11/19/2013 1:18 PM

handlebar-to-face wrote:

If you keep riding it like that it will obviously get worse and after a whilr it will mess up your rim to where you wont be ...more

even though the hop is not that big?

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11/19/2013 2:21 PM

Well i mean not right away but over time it will

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11/19/2013 3:02 PM

Most hand laced wheels have the slightest hop up. Enough to not notice it while there's a tire on. But I rode wheels with 2-3inch hops for over a year because I let my idiot friend who thought he could lace do them. If I rode on a smooth or flat surface going fast it felt like riding on the shoulder of a highway. I would also have to line up my wheels before riding (make sure the hops hit the ground atthe same time) otherwise it was pretty nauseating when my front and back end were going up and down. On a few ocassions, I fell learning 360s because the hop would jump and hit the ground during rotation before I expected to land. It gradually got worse especially when I truedthe wheel. I eeventually had to start getting smaller and smaller tires due to it getting worse, then I finally got new hubs and had my wheels professionally built. Now I do my own wheels and they're just as good.
Your best bet is to post pics of the spoke pattern and a video of the hop. Also, after lacing a wheel, make sure to tighten the spokes after the first couple days of riding as the spokes will stretch out and become loose which whill cause weakness and flexibility in the wheel.

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11/19/2013 7:12 PM

Once a rim is deformed even slightly it'll stay that way forever. You can true it again to try and minimize the hop, after that it'll be very ridable. Don't just ride it with loose spokes, that'll make it worse.

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11/19/2013 7:38 PM

Wait, do you have the problem with 3x 36H lacing to Gsport Rollcage where there's always a crossover at the valve hole? I've tried to relace like 4 times and there was always a crossover no matter what tutorial I used and my own knowledge of course.I just gave up and it's correct but it's frustrating to pump up the tube, like seriously. Not to mention about 8 of my spokes are different lengths and some are a tiny bit bent and all. Decent wheel, not super duper great.

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11/19/2013 8:33 PM

BMXism wrote:

Once a rim is deformed even slightly it'll stay that way forever. You can true it again to try and minimize the hop, after ...more

If it can bend one direction, it can bend back.

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11/19/2013 11:42 PM

BMXism wrote:

Once a rim is deformed even slightly it'll stay that way forever. You can true it again to try and minimize the hop, after ...more

motogrizz wrote:

If it can bend one direction, it can bend back.

The problem with that is spokes can only pull. It could be pretty challenging for one to disguise exactly where to pull and not to pull so much. A hop is actually the result of a flat spot, where a section of the rim took heavy impact. You can try to lower the rest of the rim to match the flat spot and minimize hop, but you can't do the reverse. And all this time you'd have to keep track
k of how straight the rim is as well.. not easy when all you can do is pull. Once deformed it's gonna want to stay that way. Trust me.

This is why its so important to do it right the first time. A brand new rim is almost a perfect circle. There's only so much you can mess with it before you fuck it completely.

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11/20/2013 5:01 AM

BMXism wrote:

The problem with that is spokes can only pull. It could be pretty challenging for one to disguise exactly where to pull and ...more

Actually, this isn't true.
A flat spot resembles somewhat of a "hop down".
What he's referring to is a improper lacing hop. This is when your lacing it, you don't evenly tighten the spokes. So one section of the wheel gets tightened more than the other, holding the hub not centered. As I stated above, I rode two wheels with preferably the WORST improper lacing hop for over a year, then unlaced them and laced them again, and there was no permanent deformation of the rim itself. You can create these hops by not truing a wheel right, or lacing it wrong. It usually occurs when you're not paying attention or rushing through a wheel and don't tighten the spokes evenly. Its impossible to exactly tighten each spoke the exact amount, so most hand laced wheels do come with the slightest .2-.5mm hop but its not noticeable whatsoever. Machines that lace stock wheels are capable of getting everything perfect, but that's another story.

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11/20/2013 5:51 AM

motogrizz wrote:

If it can bend one direction, it can bend back.

BMXism wrote:

The problem with that is spokes can only pull. It could be pretty challenging for one to disguise exactly where to pull and ...more

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Actually, this isn't true.
A flat spot resembles somewhat of a "hop down".
What he's referring to is a improper lacing hop. ...more

oh ok thanks a lot for the information, so, my wheel, even though it has a 2mm hop (not a flat spot, a hop) it won't deform my rim right?

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11/20/2013 6:00 AM

ivancuestabmx wrote:

oh ok thanks a lot for the information, so, my wheel, even though it has a 2mm hop (not a flat spot, a hop) it won't deform my ...more

I think aslong as you can go down a flat road without noticing it you should be fine. If it does get worse, just unlace the wheel and try again but be more careful. It shouldn't effect the rim shape at all, basically, the hub is just off center. The rim is still a circle though.

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11/20/2013 6:09 AM

BMXism wrote:

The problem with that is spokes can only pull. It could be pretty challenging for one to disguise exactly where to pull and ...more

I bent my rim, it didn't stay that way for lon g. I was riding a taco a week later. Or at least I was trying to.

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11/20/2013 6:18 AM

There is a huge difference between I wheel with a slight hop and one that has been actually bent from loose spokes and landing wrong, or egging. We used to play a game we called Derby where you had an area of four concrete rectangles on the street (kinda like in four square), and you couldn't put your feet down, or let your tire hit the line, or you were out, and we would try to push each other over with hands or feet, or by doing a kickout and hitting the others front or rear of their bike. Anyway, I had Motomags, and did a kickout to knock this new kid out, and bent his rear wheel so badly it wouldn't go through the ss or cs anymore. We had to bend it back the best we could, and it still looked like an s as he was riding away. He wasn't allowed to ride with us anymore.

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11/20/2013 7:29 AM

Chuck8273 wrote:

There is a huge difference between I wheel with a slight hop and one that has been actually bent from loose spokes and landing ...more

lol that's a funny history and game, might want to try it out xD

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11/20/2013 4:26 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/20/2013 11:26 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Actually, this isn't true.
A flat spot resembles somewhat of a "hop down".
What he's referring to is a improper lacing hop. ...more

Yeah pretty much what I was trying to say.. about the hop down thing. Although I was referring mostly to riding wheels with bad weak spots and giving them a beating. Speaking from experience, when a rim is pounded harder than it can handle there's no amount of trueing that'll 'bend it back', as motogrizz was saying. I'm aware that all sorts of issues can cause deformation, as chuck mentions, there's a big difference depending on circumstance. Maybe I should have elaborated more on the op's problem specifically, but I suppose you've already covered that in your first post anyway. Thanks for clarifying.

That said, riding a wheel with minimal hop can be annoying to some. Personally if it's not that bad I'd ride it.

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11/20/2013 8:08 PM

So, does your wheel have a crossover after lacing it? I've tried fixing it 4 times and nothing works. I've used the regular 36H 3x lacing on like 5 wheels and nothing has gone wrong till now. Pumping up my rear tube is a bitch.

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11/20/2013 9:10 PM

isnowyaznV2 wrote:

So, does your wheel have a crossover after lacing it? I've tried fixing it 4 times and nothing works. I've used the regular ...more

Actually, both my front and rear are laced like that. I could only find a 36 h tut on lacing and ended up having x overs over both stems. I'll fix it someday, but am too lazy for now, has. That's a lot of lacing and truing for a problem I can live with.

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11/20/2013 9:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/20/2013 9:34 PM

isnowyaznV2 wrote:

So, does your wheel have a crossover after lacing it? I've tried fixing it 4 times and nothing works. I've used the regular ...more

My Ribcage is a 48h with a 4x interlaced pattern, I have no crossover. The trick is to make all spokes move away from the valve hole. Try this link: wheel building scroll down to where it says "Boxing the Valve" there's a diagram an some info.

Basically install ALL inbound spokes first and make sure they face the same direction(away from valve hole). Then install all your outbounds and do the same, facing AWAY from the valve hole(opposite direction of all your inbounds). This pattern should leave the 'boxing' they talk about above.

I think this applies to all patterns whether it be 36h 3x or 48h 4x.. the x overs don't affect this.


For reference, the tutorial I used for my rear wheel: gsport

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11/20/2013 10:07 PM

I have Thanksgiving break next week. I'll try to get a set of new spokes and a rimstrip and relace it then.

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11/21/2013 1:26 AM

isnowyaznV2 wrote:

I have Thanksgiving break next week. I'll try to get a set of new spokes and a rimstrip and relace it then.

Ugh. Shit. Now you guys are gonna force me to fix mine as well. I can't be the only guy on here with wheels like that. That will drive me nuts.

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11/21/2013 2:44 AM

got a question about how i laced my rear wheel, i'll try to explain it...

Photo

Photo

does that difference matter? i saw in most wheels that the red triangle is always in the right, and the blue triangle is in the left (just like my front wheel). about my rear wheel, i used a 36h 3x lacing pattern, and i crosslaced the spokes.

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11/26/2013 11:38 AM

even though that question (^) may sound stupid, i'd like to get an answer

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11/26/2013 11:49 AM

Thats just point of view. But not.. it wouldnt make sense for that to effect anything. Aslong as the pattern and true/tightness are correct, nothing else necessarily matters.

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11/26/2013 12:10 PM

HardBMX_Tim wrote:

Thats just point of view. But not.. it wouldnt make sense for that to effect anything. Aslong as the pattern and ...more

if by a point of view you mean what i think you mean... no, if you look from the other side you still see them like that, anyways, the pattern and tightness are correct, it just has the hop

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11/26/2013 4:33 PM

I have built a few wheels and my current wheel is not perfectly round. How to solve this is identify where the hop is, you can use your own frame for the truing stand. Take it and identify the point where the jump is, mark it with chalk, and the lowest point, mark it with chalk. The point where the jump is you need to tighten the spokes and loosen the spokes of the lowest point. (what i mean by lowest point is the point where the rim is furthest away from the frame and the highest point is the place where the rim is closest to the frame)

Hope this helps!

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