??'s for Bonedeth Creepozoid owners

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9/23/2013 10:31 PM

What is it about the geometry that makes the seat seem so high even when slammed?
Compared to my Loosefer with the same stand over measured center to center it feels like I have half my post raised out of the frame.
The mutiny does have 11.6 bb height compared to 11.8 on the creepozoid but would that make a huge difference in seat height?
My Loden has the same 11.8 bb height but only a 8.5" stand over and seat height feels more like the Mutiny

The height is nice sometimes but can painfully get in the way other times. Haha!

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9/23/2013 10:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 10:43 PM

The reason why its high is because of the frames Stand Over Height, Creepozoid has an 8.75" stand over.

Bottom bracket height's do not measure in that much of a difference, so from 11.5 - 11.8 its only a couple of mm give or take.

That's the main factor when it comes to seat tube height.

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9/23/2013 10:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 10:45 PM

Cellmember wrote:

The reason why its high is because of the frames Stand Over Height, Creepozoid has an 8.75" stand over.

Bottom bracket height's do not measure in that much of a difference, so from 11.5 - 11.8 its only a couple of mm give or take.

That's the main factor when it comes to seat tube height.

Do you mean just frame or overall bike stand over?
Measuring both the BD and the Loosefer from center of BB to center of top tube they are both 8.75" but the bb height is .2" lower on the Loosefer.

Caught that before you edited your post. smile

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9/23/2013 10:45 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 10:49 PM

Team who cares wrote:

Do you mean just frame or overall bike stand over?
Measuring both the BD and the Loosefer from center of BB to center of top tube they are both 8.75" but the bb height is .2" lower on the Loosefer.

Caught that before you edited your post. smile

Frame stand over is the main factor when deciding how high the bike is more so then the bb height which like I said is only a couple mm in defference

Exampe, if you have one frame with an 8.75 SOH and that frame has an 11.5 BBH and one frame that has an 8.75 SOH which has an 11.8 BBH, the frame with the 8.75 SOH and 11.8 BBH will ultimately be taller overall.

Also depends on where the company chooses to measure there stand over's from, many companies use C of the TT to C of the BB, I've also seen a few measure from C of the BB to top of the TT.

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9/23/2013 10:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 10:52 PM

Cellmember wrote:

The reason why its high is because of the frames Stand Over Height, Creepozoid has an 8.75" stand over.

Bottom bracket height's do not measure in that much of a difference, so from 11.5 - 11.8 its only a couple of mm give or take.

That's the main factor when it comes to seat tube height.

Team who cares wrote:

Do you mean just frame or overall bike stand over?
Measuring both the BD and the Loosefer from center of BB to center of top tube they are both 8.75" but the bb height is .2" lower on the Loosefer.

Caught that before you edited your post. smile

Cellmember wrote:

Frame stand over is the main factor when deciding how high the bike is more so then the bb height which like I said is only a couple mm in defference

Exampe, if you have one frame with an 8.75 SOH and that frame has an 11.5 BBH and one frame that has an 8.75 SOH which has an 11.8 BBH, the frame with the 8.75 SOH and 11.8 BBH will ultimately be taller overall.

Also depends on where the company chooses to measure there stand over's from, many companies use C of the TT to C of the BB, I've also seen a few measure from C of the BB to top of the TT.

Hmmmm thats the way I thought it was. Not sure why my it feels so much taller than my mutiny......
Ya mutiny measures to top of tt at 8.95 but physically measuring both frames center to center they are the same in that respect.
.2 bb height is the only difference on paper. But they feel way different.

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9/23/2013 10:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 10:54 PM

Team who cares wrote:

Hmmmm thats the way I thought it was. Not sure why my it feels so much taller than my mutiny......
Ya mutiny measures to top of tt at 8.95 but physically measuring both frames center to center they are the same in that respect.
.2 bb height is the only difference on paper. But they feel way different.

What Mutiny frame do you have ?

If your Muntiny has an 8.75 SOH and 11.6 BBH, it will be the lower one compared to the Creepozoid.

I will also mention that the seat mast can play a part in the height as well.

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9/23/2013 10:55 PM

Its the Loosefer v3 I believe. The last run before Randy Taylors death.
I swapped seat and post between the two just to see about that and its still a huge difference by feel. Does that .2" bb height really feel like its a huge difference?

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9/23/2013 10:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 11:00 PM

Well the difference in BB's between the 2 frames is a 5mm difference. Your creepoziod being the higher of the 2 being 5mm higher.

Also as I mentioned before the seat mast will play a part in the hight as well, if you don't know what the seat mast is, it's the rest of the seat tube that sits past the top tube. tongue

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9/23/2013 11:04 PM

Ya the mast may be slightly taller on the Bonedeth as well. Would 5mm on its own actually be that noticeable?

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9/23/2013 11:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2013 11:10 PM

Team who cares wrote:

Ya the mast may be slightly taller on the Bonedeth as well. Would 5mm on its own actually be that noticeable?

It can be, some people don't notice it, some people do, you my friend do tongue

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9/23/2013 11:15 PM

Hmmm, been trying to figure out why its just not a comfortable feeling frame. I dont know if its just the height or if its that mixed with the longer backend, or if its just me coming back from injury and not adjusting well.

Will the height have a negative effect on responsiveness and spinning?
Or is it just a combonation of things, or just in my head? smile

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9/23/2013 11:35 PM

Team who cares wrote:

Hmmm, been trying to figure out why its just not a comfortable feeling frame. I dont know if its just the height or if its that mixed with the longer backend, or if its just me coming back from injury and not adjusting well.

Will the height have a negative effect on responsiveness and spinning?
Or is it just a combonation of things, or just in my head? smile

With BBH's a lower one will keep you closer to the ground and provide more stability whereas a higher BBH will give you more responsiveness but will also give you the feeling of being pushed over the bars.

Personal preference really. I'm pretty happy with a 11.75" I've used an 11.5 BBH which I didn't like as I felt as if I was sunken into the bike and I've also used an 11.8" BBH which was a tiny bit different to the 11.75" and I honestly didn't like it, so 11.75 is perfect for me.

If you are talking about stand over height determining your spins, no it will not, but the bottom bracket height does play a small part in that.

It's not in your head because you can obviously feel the difference I say go with what feels better for you.

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9/23/2013 11:44 PM

Sounds nice... like you can have a low seat and still feel it when you pinch your legs for a barspin or X-up.

My Aitken is real low, but the seat is angled really far back, so to feel it you have to have a big seat that is higher up.

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9/24/2013 12:08 AM

Team who cares wrote:

Hmmm, been trying to figure out why its just not a comfortable feeling frame. I dont know if its just the height or if its that mixed with the longer backend, or if its just me coming back from injury and not adjusting well.

Will the height have a negative effect on responsiveness and spinning?
Or is it just a combonation of things, or just in my head? smile

Cellmember wrote:

With BBH's a lower one will keep you closer to the ground and provide more stability whereas a higher BBH will give you more responsiveness but will also give you the feeling of being pushed over the bars.

Personal preference really. I'm pretty happy with a 11.75" I've used an 11.5 BBH which I didn't like as I felt as if I was sunken into the bike and I've also used an 11.8" BBH which was a tiny bit different to the 11.75" and I honestly didn't like it, so 11.75 is perfect for me.

If you are talking about stand over height determining your spins, no it will not, but the bottom bracket height does play a small part in that.

It's not in your head because you can obviously feel the difference I say go with what feels better for you.

When you say bb height plays a small part in spins do you mean higher bb = more effort to spin?
Thats what it seems like to me. Or is personal riding style and just comfort more of a factor?

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9/24/2013 9:37 AM

Ok. Here it goes: The BB height will affect responsiveness, Higher BB=more responsive. But even though the Bone Deth has a higher BB than the Mutiny, the Mutiny has a steeper head tube angel and a shorter back end, both of which make make the Mutiny more responsive than the Bone Deth. Not saying one is worse than the other, I love the geo on the Bone Deth, but if you were looking for a super responsive frame, Bone Deth was not the right choice.

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9/24/2013 9:57 AM

Ok, so basically im coming up with the theory that I am more comfortable on a more responsive and possibly shorter frame.
Another question, how much can fork offset play into everything?
I have the Federal 20/20 v2's on the bonedeth which are 35mm offset, everything else I have pretty much has 30mm offset which is usually what I ride.

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9/24/2013 3:22 PM

Team who cares wrote:

Ok, so basically im coming up with the theory that I am more comfortable on a more responsive and possibly shorter frame.
Another question, how much can fork offset play into everything?
I have the Federal 20/20 v2's on the bonedeth which are 35mm offset, everything else I have pretty much has 30mm offset which is usually what I ride.

Basically the frame and forks mellowed out the feel of your bike. Steeper forks will twitch up the front end. Get some 13mm strands or some r25s and you can make it feel like you have a 75 degree head tube and 30-32mm forks

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9/26/2013 9:39 AM

Strands are hella fun.

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