true wheel - best bmx spokes

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11/10/2019 6:41 AM

Hello guys,

I am thinking to relace both wheels as the front one was made wrong (by a shop) and the rear one has the spokes who becomes loose always.

1) which spokes you'd suddgest? I am looking for something good and light as well.. I am keeping an eye on the butted one as the seems lighter. Any suddgestion?

2) Do you think it's possible to lace and true a wheel without any tool? I can bring to another shop but since I won't be able to ride for 2 months I was thinking to try lace the wheel by myself.. It's dangerous trying?

Thank you

Mattia

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11/10/2019 8:49 AM

I'm a fan of DT Swiss Champion with brass nipples. I'd stay away from aluminum nipples as they strip quite easily and the weight tradeoff isn't that much. I've tried double butted spokes in the past and found myself having to true my wheels more often. Just like the aluminum nipples, the weight trade off was not enough to deal with the other headaches.

It is possible to lace up the wheel without a tool but you definitely need a spoke wrench to tighten and true it up. Maybe consider ordering custom wheel(s) from a reputable shop like Empire or something since your local is failing.

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11/12/2019 2:39 PM

pursuitofnow wrote:

I'm a fan of DT Swiss Champion with brass nipples. I'd stay away from aluminum nipples as they strip quite easily and the weight tradeoff isn't that much. I've tried double butted spokes in the past and found myself having to true my wheels more often. Just like the aluminum nipples, the weight trade off was not enough to deal with the other headaches.

It is possible to lace up the wheel without a tool but you definitely need a spoke wrench to tighten and true it up. Maybe consider ordering custom wheel(s) from a reputable shop like Empire or something since your local is failing.

Hello,

thank you so much for your reply.
I will go proceed to order spokes from sourcebmx and I don't think they have that kind of spokes.

I would like to have something that is not butter like my nipples now as the quality is very poor.
Do you think something like federal or odyssey would be fine? ( I will go for the butted one).

I have a spoke wrench and I can tighten them up a little bit. The problem is I never started from the beginning.
I can't consider to order a complete wheel as I need to replace only the hub as the rim will stay the same.

Thank you

Mattia

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11/12/2019 2:49 PM

mattiabmx wrote:

Hello,

thank you so much for your reply.
I will go proceed to order spokes from sourcebmx and I don't think they have that kind of spokes.

I would like to have something that is not butter like my nipples now as the quality is very poor.
Do you think something like federal or odyssey would be fine? ( I will go for the butted one).

I have a spoke wrench and I can tighten them up a little bit. The problem is I never started from the beginning.
I can't consider to order a complete wheel as I need to replace only the hub as the rim will stay the same.

Thank you

Mattia

Odyssey is all I've used for the past 5 years or so. No complaints at all.

I would also suggest checking the size of your spoke wrench; if it's too large, you'll round any nipples off quite easily, regardless of the brand.

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11/12/2019 3:15 PM

I’ve got bsd butted spokes on both my wheels, and both of my sons. But chances are they’re all the same thing just re branded anyway.

Lacing a wheel is easy as long as you break it down into steps. There’s a few ways to do it so just find the way that’s easiest to learn from. I made a pretty in depth how to, but it’s pretty poorly filmed and edited.

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11/12/2019 5:08 PM

pursuitofnow wrote:

I'm a fan of DT Swiss Champion with brass nipples. I'd stay away from aluminum nipples as they strip quite easily and the weight tradeoff isn't that much. I've tried double butted spokes in the past and found myself having to true my wheels more often. Just like the aluminum nipples, the weight trade off was not enough to deal with the other headaches.

It is possible to lace up the wheel without a tool but you definitely need a spoke wrench to tighten and true it up. Maybe consider ordering custom wheel(s) from a reputable shop like Empire or something since your local is failing.

mattiabmx wrote:

Hello,

thank you so much for your reply.
I will go proceed to order spokes from sourcebmx and I don't think they have that kind of spokes.

I would like to have something that is not butter like my nipples now as the quality is very poor.
Do you think something like federal or odyssey would be fine? ( I will go for the butted one).

I have a spoke wrench and I can tighten them up a little bit. The problem is I never started from the beginning.
I can't consider to order a complete wheel as I need to replace only the hub as the rim will stay the same.

Thank you

Mattia

No problem. In short I would recommend against double butted spokes and aluminum nipples. Any of the brands mentioned will work great. And yes, make sure you have the proper size spoke wrench. Enjoy, wheel building is quite therapeutic.

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11/12/2019 6:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/12/2019 6:59 PM

Any Brass nipples and gsport hex nipples work very well for me. Dont get alloy nipples since they corrode and ive snapped at least 10 or more from jumping or doing tricks.

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Barends are for weenies

11/12/2019 10:47 PM

Butted spokes are fine, I’ve had my current ones for at least 2 years, and rebuilt wheels with them probably 5 or 6 times. The only time you’ll ever really snap spokes is from grinding, and the edge of a ledge won’t care if your spokes are butted or not. If you snap spokes from landing awkward, your wheels were built badly

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11/12/2019 11:27 PM

.pegless. wrote:

I’ve got bsd butted spokes on both my wheels, and both of my sons. But chances are they’re all the same thing just re branded anyway.

Lacing a wheel is easy as long as you break it down into steps. There’s a few ways to do it so just find the way that’s easiest to learn from. I made a pretty in depth how to, but it’s pretty poorly filmed and edited.

Would you mind sharing it? It could help me a lot for building my first one
Thank you so much

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11/12/2019 11:30 PM

.pegless. wrote:

Butted spokes are fine, I’ve had my current ones for at least 2 years, and rebuilt wheels with them probably 5 or 6 times. The only time you’ll ever really snap spokes is from grinding, and the edge of a ledge won’t care if your spokes are butted or not. If you snap spokes from landing awkward, your wheels were built badly

Mainly I've snapped my spokes when I was throwing whips as the rear wheel slam hard on the floor sometimes..

Could you please let me know how can I see the right size of spokes/nipples for my wheel?

On the front I will use a profile mini and a gsport rollcage while on the back profile mini and gsport ribcage.
I think there is a calculator on the wbe where it can calculate the right size of the spoke but..are they accurate?


Thank you

Mattia

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11/13/2019 3:46 AM

mattiabmx wrote:

Mainly I've snapped my spokes when I was throwing whips as the rear wheel slam hard on the floor sometimes..

Could you please let me know how can I see the right size of spokes/nipples for my wheel?

On the front I will use a profile mini and a gsport rollcage while on the back profile mini and gsport ribcage.
I think there is a calculator on the wbe where it can calculate the right size of the spoke but..are they accurate?


Thank you

Mattia

https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator
Gives decimal values but you can round up or down with no problem, and yes, ive used this calculator it works well.

Front wheel: 188mm
Rear Non Drive Side: 188mm
Drive side: 186mm

Most 20" bmx wheels use 180-190mm spokes if a 36 spoke 3 cross pattern is used. Remember the casette will need 2 different spoke lengths as the flange on one side is higher.

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Barends are for weenies

11/14/2019 10:40 PM

.pegless. wrote:

Butted spokes are fine, I’ve had my current ones for at least 2 years, and rebuilt wheels with them probably 5 or 6 times. The only time you’ll ever really snap spokes is from grinding, and the edge of a ledge won’t care if your spokes are butted or not. If you snap spokes from landing awkward, your wheels were built badly

mattiabmx wrote:

Mainly I've snapped my spokes when I was throwing whips as the rear wheel slam hard on the floor sometimes..

Could you please let me know how can I see the right size of spokes/nipples for my wheel?

On the front I will use a profile mini and a gsport rollcage while on the back profile mini and gsport ribcage.
I think there is a calculator on the wbe where it can calculate the right size of the spoke but..are they accurate?


Thank you

Mattia

bmxmanboy wrote:

https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator
Gives decimal values but you can round up or down with no problem, and yes, ive used this calculator it works well.

Front wheel: 188mm
Rear Non Drive Side: 188mm
Drive side: 186mm

Most 20" bmx wheels use 180-190mm spokes if a 36 spoke 3 cross pattern is used. Remember the casette will need 2 different spoke lengths as the flange on one side is higher.

thank you so much for your kind help.
What is the lenght of the nipples calculated with this configuration? 16mm or 12?

regarding the spokes, which one you'd take between those?

https://parano-garage.de/ODYSSEY-Race-Double-Butted-Spokes_1

https://parano-garage.de/SAPIM-Laser-Stainless-Double-Butted-Spokes_1


The shop suddgest sapim one with this nipple which are brass ( don't know what does mean but they should be stronger than alloy one)

https://parano-garage.de/Brass-Spoke-Nipples-16mm_1

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11/14/2019 10:48 PM

Spokes come with nipples, just use them. If the shop is trying to sell the nipples separately, find a different shop

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11/15/2019 4:35 AM

I know shops trying to sell what they cannot sell but it is actually true that brasa are better than alloy?
And have you ever heard pf sapim brand?

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11/15/2019 4:46 AM

mattiabmx wrote:

I know shops trying to sell what they cannot sell but it is actually true that brasa are better than alloy?
And have you ever heard pf sapim brand?

Brass is stronger and doesnt corrode on the stainless steel spokes which could cause problems later on

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Barends are for weenies

11/15/2019 3:32 PM

mattiabmx wrote:

I know shops trying to sell what they cannot sell but it is actually true that brasa are better than alloy?
And have you ever heard pf sapim brand?

bmxmanboy wrote:

Brass is stronger and doesnt corrode on the stainless steel spokes which could cause problems later on

Thank you for your help.
Is there Any brand/model of spokes you’d suddgest? At the moment I have odyssey hgs spokes but I am looking for something lighter and stronger. I am staying stronger because so far it’s very easy to snap them ( but I bet is because the wheel hasn’t be tighten up properly)

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11/15/2019 3:37 PM

mattiabmx wrote:

I know shops trying to sell what they cannot sell but it is actually true that brasa are better than alloy?
And have you ever heard pf sapim brand?

bmxmanboy wrote:

Brass is stronger and doesnt corrode on the stainless steel spokes which could cause problems later on

mattiabmx wrote:

Thank you for your help.
Is there Any brand/model of spokes you’d suddgest? At the moment I have odyssey hgs spokes but I am looking for something lighter and stronger. I am staying stronger because so far it’s very easy to snap them ( but I bet is because the wheel hasn’t be tighten up properly)

Usa brand spokes have worked well for me, you can go ti but they are expensive

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Barends are for weenies

11/15/2019 10:49 PM

Sapim are a well known brand. But any bmx spokes will come with brass nipples. They’re basically all the same thing really. You need to put oil on the thread of the spokes before putting the nipple on. The steel of the spoke can still corrode causing stuck nipples

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11/15/2019 11:54 PM

bmxmanboy wrote:

Brass is stronger and doesnt corrode on the stainless steel spokes which could cause problems later on

mattiabmx wrote:

Thank you for your help.
Is there Any brand/model of spokes you’d suddgest? At the moment I have odyssey hgs spokes but I am looking for something lighter and stronger. I am staying stronger because so far it’s very easy to snap them ( but I bet is because the wheel hasn’t be tighten up properly)

bmxmanboy wrote:

Usa brand spokes have worked well for me, you can go ti but they are expensive

thank you!
yeah, definitely I won't go with ti as they are very expensive!

what's the difference SAPIM Leader Stainless Steel Spoke and SAPIM Laser Stainless Double Butted ?

sorry if I am keep asking questions related to spokes but I would like to buy something that will last for few years..

thank you

Mattia

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11/15/2019 11:59 PM

mattiabmx wrote:

Thank you for your help.
Is there Any brand/model of spokes you’d suddgest? At the moment I have odyssey hgs spokes but I am looking for something lighter and stronger. I am staying stronger because so far it’s very easy to snap them ( but I bet is because the wheel hasn’t be tighten up properly)

bmxmanboy wrote:

Usa brand spokes have worked well for me, you can go ti but they are expensive

mattiabmx wrote:

thank you!
yeah, definitely I won't go with ti as they are very expensive!

what's the difference SAPIM Leader Stainless Steel Spoke and SAPIM Laser Stainless Double Butted ?

sorry if I am keep asking questions related to spokes but I would like to buy something that will last for few years..

thank you

Mattia

on the website of the manufacter said that laser one are for MTB and not bmx.. and they should be mount from a specialist as the middle section is thin..

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11/16/2019 12:51 AM

The difference is the gauge of the middle section. I wouldn’t trust those laser spokes at all. You’re over thinking this. Any spokes from a bmx brand will be fine. If you really want to save weight go butted. Alloy nipples save a lot of weight but as it’s your first wheel build I’d suggest sticking with brass. Lighter rims and/or tyres and tubes would be a more beneficial weight saving. But there’s always a strength/durability to weight saving trade off

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11/16/2019 2:05 AM

Is this site accurate?

https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator

If I have to follow it, I will need:

Front wheel: 188mm
Rear Non Drive Side: 188mm
Drive side: 186mm

But when I have asked the shop before it says:

front 186mm
rear: 182mm and 184mm


quite confused now..

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11/16/2019 2:30 AM

I’m pretty sure I just used 184 front and rear. A couple of mm doesn’t matter too much. On the rear you just have to keep an eye on the dish a little more

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11/16/2019 2:59 AM

.pegless. wrote:

I’m pretty sure I just used 184 front and rear. A couple of mm doesn’t matter too much. On the rear you just have to keep an eye on the dish a little more

what do you mean by keeping an eye on the dish?

Since the smaller falange of the mini hub rear is the same of the front hub, why the size is different?

2mm is not a big difference, correct?
I can imagine that spokes too long could cause an issue when you are bulding the wheel as you have to "force" more the spokes to go in the hole and too short would be easier but there is less surface where the nipples can tight the spokes.

Am I right?

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11/16/2019 5:47 AM

Dish is how central the rim is.
The spoke length difference is to make up for driver offset, and the drive side flange is a little bigger.
2mm isn’t enough that the spoke will stick out the top and cause punctures. And still long enough that all the thread will be inside the nipple

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